I'll Probably Delete This Later (It's About Depression) with L. A. Sprague

You can believe in Jesus and still feel crushed by depression and you can look “fine” while you’re quietly fighting to stay alive. I’m L. A. Sprague, and this is one of the most vulnerable stories I’ve ever shared: my experience with major depressive disorder  and the long habit of masking pain in Christian spaces that taught me sadness was shameful or even spiritual failure. (Content warning: self-harm, suicidal ideation, domestic violence, trauma, and inpatient mental health care.)

I walk through what depression actually felt like in my body and mind: numbness, insomnia, agitation, intrusive and violent images, paranoia that people hated me, and moments when driving became dangerous. I also unpack how certain church messages can deepen stigma, why some forms of “biblical counseling” left me feeling worse, and how a distorted view of martyrdom became a pipeline for passive suicidal thinking.

Then I share what helped me survive and rebuild: going to a mental hospital when I hit a breaking point, starting medication and finally sleeping again, creating a safety plan with warning signs and people to call, and finding healthier support through therapy, friends, and practical steps that reduce risk. My faith is part of the story too, including deconstruction, doubt, and the comfort of a Savior who knows what abandonment feels like.

If you’re in a dark place, you’re not alone, and you’re not beyond help. Listen, share this with someone who needs it, and please follow, subscribe, and leave a review so more people can find this community.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm

Welcome And A Heavy Disclaimer

SPEAKER_01 0:01

your Jesus loving and potty host, Elise Frank. Welcome to Christians with Chronic Illnesses. I have crippling depression. Well, hello, dear friend. How are you doing today? Sincerely, deeply, holy, how are you feeling? Let us know in the comments. We'd love to know. I want to thank you so much for listening to Christians with Chronic Illnesses. Out of all the things that you could be listening to, out of all the things you could be spending your time energy and energy doing, you're here listening to the show. And that really does mean a lot to me. So thanks so much from the bottom of my heart. Per usual, don't forget to give us a rating and a following and all that good stuff, both so you can keep up with us. And it also low-key does help the show with the algorithm and everything, okay? Anyway, all that aside, super glad that you're here. We're Christians with chronic illnesses. Every other week we interview Chronically Ill Christian, and the other weeks of the month, I talk about my story and anything relating to Christianity and chronic illness. And today I'm talking about something I have been procrastinating talking about because I don't know that I've ever gone public with this information, like probably like here and there, I guess, but generally this is a part of myself that I don't like to talk about too much. And so we're just gonna do it. We're gonna rip off that band-aid. Today we are going to be talking about depression. Specifically, major depressive disorder is the fancy term for it. Now, before you scroll away, I understand depression is such a common thing, right? Lots of people now know the word depression, know generally what it means, and thankfully, you know, it's good to have the information out there. But I think per most information, you know, being kind of like shared at mass, it starts to become a stereotype. And what initially was hopeful to bring awareness to a condition now actually stigmatized it and made it less serious. So there's still lots and lots of stigma with depression, lots of misunderstanding, and lots of ableism out there for both mental and physical chronic conditions. But today specifically, we're gonna talk about depression. And I just I'm in kind of this, I guess, series, not really, but sort of with halftime shows, where I want to tell you guys a little bit about my story and yeah, what what my conditions are like and how the church has handled them and things of the sort. So this isn't necessarily gonna be the brightest episode, and I would really like to give a disclaimer. If you have children around listening, first of all, Christians with chronic illnesses in general is a kind of more mature show and does embrace really difficult topics, really dark topics, and sometimes vulgar language. And so I would encourage you to use discretion if you're listening around your children. I personally don't think I would listen to this episode around children or around other sensitive listeners or people who might be triggered or just not understand where this episode is coming from. That being said, we will be talking about things relating to self-harm, suicidal thoughts, trauma, domestic violence, and mental health hospitals. So if any of these topics are traumatizing to you, as I will probably get into some pretty gruesome detail today, I highly recommend that you maybe pause this episode, go listen to one of our lighter ones. Last halftime show, I reacted to chronic illness, read it. So there's that. Also, my apologies today. There is gonna be some pauses, some brain fog, as this is a very difficult story for me to tell, a very difficult topic to talk about, and I am tired, and I do feel slightly depressed, and I'm not exactly sure why, but it it happens. What can you do? Alright,

What Depression Can Look Like

SPEAKER_01 4:20

so I think where we're gonna start is I'm gonna start, I guess, by going through the symptoms of depression, but I do want to talk more personally about my story. So just an overall view of depression, according to the Mayo Clinic. Depression is essentially this chronic long-term feeling of sadness that you just can't shake, right? So some symptoms include feeling obviously sad, tearfulness, and emptiness and hopelessness throughout your day, like every day, angry outbursts, irritability and frustration, which I'm feeling a lot today. Even over small matters like losing my mouse plug and anyway, loss of interest or pleasure in most or all activities, such as sex, hobbies, or sports, right? Makes sense. Sleep disturbance like insomnia, tiredness, and a lack of energy or sleeping too much, uh reduced appetite or weight loss, or increased caving cravings, which is more so what I experienced. Anxiety, agitation, and restlessness, slow to thinking, slowed speaking or slow body movements, which I will get into. Feelings of worthlessness or guilt, fixating on past failures or self-blame. Yeah, that's a big thing that I'll talk about is my kind of constant belief in the past, not so much now, I'm I guess now too, actually. Of of just being a failure. Frequent recurrent thoughts of death, suicidal thoughts, suicidal attempts or suicide. Unexpected physical problems such as back pain or headaches, which I experienced those all throughout high school. So

Church Stigma And Spiritual Bypassing

SPEAKER_01 6:15

I think it would be important to talk about my upbringing. So if you go back a few episodes, I talk a little bit about my Pentecostal upbringing and how that hurt and helped my health, right? And I would say that it hurt a lot. And I talk a lot about kind of the the, in my opinion, toxic teaching of if you believe it, you receive it. Because as I explained more in that episode, though it's true that Jesus does use things of similar language, like if you ask, you will receive, if you knock, the door will be opened. I think that the problem that the the groups I group around at least had was kind of cherry-picking that scripture and using that like full stop black and white, rather than exploring the rest of scripture in parts where Jesus let people die, or Jesus let people be sick and didn't heal them, or Jesus literally hid away while people were looking for him to heal their sick and to help them. So anyway, I just think that at least how I grew up, there was a lot of emphasis on the Holy Spirit and how he can change your life and will change your life. And though I suppose that's true according to Christian doctrine, I don't know many Christians that would disagree with that. And, you know, there was a lot of emphasis on physical expression of joy. You were always to be happy, to be smiling, because the more that you were smiley, the more that you were charismatic, the more that you laughed and were full of joy, the more that people would claim that they could see the Holy Spirit working in your life. They could feel the Holy Spirit in your presence, right? And so things like depression also were often blamed on demonic oppression or demonic possession. And medicine, I think, generally was probably pretty frowned on because you should trust the Holy Spirit. And though maybe that wasn't specifically taught in my congregations, it's absolutely a takeaway that you could have. And so for a long time, I actually was against antidepressants and calling something depression, because then you're identifying with the illness when quote unquote your identity is supposed to be in Christ, right? So anyway, it's just like there's a lot of emphasis on who you were supposed to look like as a true Christian and as someone who had the Holy Spirit and was in relationship with him. And depression was not one of those. You were supposed to be joyful and rejoice in trial, and I think a lot of ways that conflict was handled, maybe in the church, but also just in my family unit, was to act like it never happened and to just forgive, right? Like, yeah, so there was just a lot of from I think from the get-go, and I I love my parents dearly, very grateful for the way that specifically my mom tried her best to raise us with the humility she had and the immense amount of pressure that was put on her in a abusive relationship. I do want to thank my mom and give her honor where it is due. And so I'm not at all putting this episode out here to shame her. This isn't necessarily like intended to be a trauma dump, but it is also my story, and there's some trauma in that story. So it is what it is. But yeah, I think that conflict was not handled well and generally isn't handled well, and so there is a lot of just suppressing your emotions, suppressing your anger, your depression, your anxiety. Every negative emotion was not to be seen or heard. It was supposed to be brought directly to God and dealt with by God, and anything further than that was pretty much demonic oppression or demonic possession. And so it was very scary to even think that you could potentially be mentally ill, but I think the category of mental illness altogether kind of just didn't exist because we over-spiritualized everything. So that's a little bit of background of kind of how the denominations I grew up in and the teachings that I was taught with really influenced how I dealt with my emotions and dealt with the emotions of other people.

Domestic Violence And Early Self Harm

SPEAKER_01 11:00

So I'm gonna get a little obviously personal, and I'm going to respect these people anonymously and try to use vague titles, except for my dad, not to bash my my father, but I do believe that perpetrators aren't worth protecting. And so I used to really hold this idea of honoring my father, but I think to a toxic extent. And so now, though, I of course I hope the best for him, I hope for healing for him, I hope for recovery and all those good things, I hope redemption, duh. I love him to pieces. I always have and I always will. However, he was an abuser, so I'm not going to hide his identity in this because I think he's been protected for far too long. And so, for the sake of just being able to share my story freely and also maybe help anybody listening that does know my dad, including my siblings, I hope that this is helpful for you and not hurtful. But other people who were victims, such as my siblings, I will try to be more vague with their identities. So, mental health, dude. Obviously, like I said, it was stigmatized, and I just didn't really believe it was a thing. Again, I thought depression was just something fully spiritual, and all you had to do to get rid of it was go to Jesus and go to the Holy Spirit, and He'd heal you, right? He promises joy, He promises He's the Prince of Peace. So why wouldn't he? And if he doesn't, well, maybe you're just not having enough faith. Well, I had a sibling, and they were very obviously depressed. And I I was young, and this the story is gonna be a little heavy, again. Warning. And my father used to yell at my mom a lot, throw things at her a lot, and but but we typically weren't there to see it. He would always find a way to hide him and mom in one area, and then the rest of us hide away, so there was less eyewitness, right? And there it was always hard, right? There were always these feelings. I remember being like a six-year-old girl in my bunk bed, just trying to muster up the courage to go stand up to my dad and tell him to stop hurting my mom and yelling at my mom. But I couldn't. And no wonder I was a six-year-old girl. So that abuse of my father, to particularly towards my mother, but part also towards this sibling, was very aggressive. And this the sibling of mine one day, and it was one of the biggest fights, you know, kind of one of the biggest blowouts that that my parents had. And when I say fights, it's typically just my dad yelling at my mom. So keep that in mind. But I finally mustered up the courage to go upstairs and to confront my dad because it was just so bad. It was so bad. All of us kids were in the basement, and only him and mom were upstairs. And we had this curtain in front of the stairwell. I ripped open the curtain and I looked down, and there was my sibling, and my sibling was self-harming themselves, particularly on the wrist with a knife. And to say the least, I panicked. I don't remember much from that night uh after that. I remember my parents coming downstairs eventually and me telling my mom what my sibling was doing. And I did I just didn't get it. I think I was so young at that point, I was probably like maybe ten. And yeah, I just didn't understand that. I didn't really think about it much, I don't think, other than you know how terrifying it was. So years later, I know I was sad. There was a lot that happened with moving, trying to get away from my dad, and then my dad essentially coming up and following and manipulating my mom to get back with him, and so lots of like kind of state hopping, leaving friends behind, and it was hard, it was traumatizing for a little, you know, 11, 12-year-old who was shy, not anymore, but I I was shy and very awkward. We were homeschooled, and so it was really hard to leave behind my best friends. It was really hard, and I know that I would spend so much time when we had moved back up to our original home state, just in a closet. I quite literally would lay down in a closet and I would like write notes to my friends and give it to them the next time we went back to that state, or I would just write on like I had the special box that had like different gifts or notes or whatever from people that my friends had given me, and I would read those over and over again, or I would draw on my little, you know, special box and just be so sad and just lay there listening to music and falling asleep in my closet. And I don't think anybody ever came and checked on me, like so serious. I don't think once anybody opened that closet door. And there was so much going on that I don't necessarily, you know, blame my my mom per se. And my dad just wasn't really there for moments for moments like that. So yeah, to say the least, I wasn't the happiest little girly. And so fast forwarding July 4th, big fight, last fight with my parents, my dad was arrested, and I remember after my dad was arrested, either that night or the next morning, I remember being upstairs by my bedroom looking out the window, and my first ever thought of hurting myself came to mind. And I think I freaked out just like that. I think I immediately freaked out and and prayed. I had a very close relationship with Jesus, and so I think I immediately freaked out and probably repented and was so sorry and everything, but that's kind of where it began.

First Suicidal Thoughts And Isolation

SPEAKER_01 18:21

And so after that, fun fact, and I love talking about this, and you'll I guess you'll see why it relates. I started going to these small Christian rock concerts, and a lot of them were super awesome. They would talk about these hard things like suicidal thoughts and self-harm, and they would talk about how Jesus, the Holy Spirit, he wanted to meet you right where you were at in your pain and in your suffering, and he wanted to be your lifeline, and that helped me so immensely, seriously, that helped me survive so incredibly much during that time of my life, and even to this day, Jesus is my survival instinct. I'm so serious, whether I like that or not. Sometimes I don't, I'll be completely honest. But he is. At the end of the day, it's like when when push comes to shove, he is my survival instinct. I'm praying to that guy, bro. Like, I'm doing it. So, anyway, I started going to these concerts, and I was about 13 years old when I really, really wanted to self-harm and had very easy hidden access accessibility to it. I I found a particular way that I could self-harm that no one would notice. It'd be just an area in my body that would not be, you know, looked at often or at all. And I could do it very easily and casually in the middle of like town and no one would notice. I'm not gonna go into details of what that was because I don't want to give anyone ideas, particularly if there's teenagers are listening. But I just I found a way, and it happened after I was accidentally injured, and then I was like, oh, I could do this not accidentally. And I think Jared from the protest, you jumped for the protest, and I think you were the first person I ever told that I had like depression, and and I don't really know, I don't think at that point I had suicidal thoughts, but you were the first person I think I ever told that I felt self-harmful. And I just remember in that moment feeling so incredibly and unbelievably numb. Like my whole body, I just felt this experience like I was there, but I wasn't really there. And Jared, shout out to you, bro. You have just always been there for me. You're fabulous. I love you so much, and I'm really grateful for the influence that you've had on my life. Yeah, love you, dude. You should come on the show sometime and talk about your uh experience with your daughter, with Sarah, if you want to. Anyway, but yeah, so I think Jared was the first person I told about these self-harmful thoughts, you know, when I was about 13 years old. And it's kind of crazy to think about when you look at 13-year-old kids, they are so tiny, they're so small, and to think that a 13-year-old was consistently thinking about and really, really considering and like kind of pushing the the boundaries of self-harm. It's pretty devastating, in my opinion. But I I want to share this story because it's super sweet. And that was the protest I went and saw one of their shows. I used to follow them a lot as a kid. I'd see them like so many times in a year, like anywhere they played, I would go watch them because they were more of like a small town band back then, you know, like however long ago this was, like 13 years ago. And uh I remember just Showing up to a show, and they were all so attentive to me, which is just wild being a little 13-year-old girl. Like they could have been so like annoyed, like, oh, she's just attention seeking, but they were genuinely concerned for my well-being. And I remember at that show, they played Up From the Fall, which is a song you should go listen to, Up From the Fall by the Protest. So good. They played that live and they said it was for me. And that made me cry, or probably almost cry because I tried not to cry in public. And then and then when I was walking around, Josh, you sing for the protest, and you're like, hey, come here, come here. And he gave me this little plastic like rose, like plastic paper rose. I don't know, I still have it to this day. And he said, You're beautiful. And I know that like now, like that there's so many like sexual assault allegations and everything going around. This could sound really creepy that some dude in his early 20s is like telling this 13-year-old girl that he's beautiful with a rose. But I want you to keep in mind this was in complete public, like around everybody, okay? And they were, I think, very safe people. Like, they didn't we didn't message back and forth an excessive amount or anything like that. Like, they were genuinely very, very brotherly. And I I mean that, guys. I'm not trying to like cover a creeps track or anything like that. Like, I I genuinely mean that. They really did a lot, they really filled a spot that my dad had left behind. It wasn't weird, and it didn't even feel like like I didn't have some like crush on Josh after that or anything. It was literally just like someone like an older, like a mentor, or like a father figure or brother figure, or like I don't even know how to explain it, just like looking into your soul and just reminding you like Jesus loves you and you're beautiful. And I needed that, guys. I really truly needed that. And before I left that night, Jerob was like, do not go anywhere before we pray for you. And then they did, they just like as a band surrounded me, this little 13-year-old girl and prayed for me. And it was just so pure, and it's really what I needed. So, anyway, to say the least, Christian rock concerts got me through so, so much. And to this day, I've been going to this particular festival called Kingdom Come Festival literally for like 13 years now. Now I know that you're probably like, what is this all about? How are you talking about depression? I really just I want to I want to give honor where it's due. And I want to kind of try to give you guys a fuller scope of what depression can look like in a life, rather than giving you the statistics and everything. Anyway, so and I want to give you some ups and downs. I don't want it all to be like drab. So thank you for listening to my story. So a few years later, around 2015, now, mind you, all throughout this time, probably from about 11 years old, maybe even younger, all the way up to present day, I have had feelings of depression and of extreme sadness, of kind of lethargicness, and things of

Music As A Lifeline

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the sort when I was really sad. So when I was 15 years old, that's when I started experiencing really intense violent thoughts. And I think some of this has to do with I had a very unhealthy view of martyrdom. So I do want to talk about this carefully. But I I started reading a book called Killing Christians by Tom Doyle, and I talk about this in a former episode where I say God called me to be a missionary, but then I got sick. I highly recommend you go check that out for a little bit more about what my story has been up to this point. And that really spurred a desire in me to give my whole life to Jesus. However, because I was already extremely depressed and had a lot of self-harmful thoughts and tendencies, martyrdom was essentially a religiously glorified, passively suicidal pipeline. Like, yeah. So I had no care for my life. None, really. And if anything, I wanted to die sooner. I didn't think I was gonna make it past 18 years old. And so martyrdom just seemed like that I'm gonna go do it. I'm gonna go spare share God's word, and then I'm gonna go die for him, and then I'm gonna be under his throne, and it's gonna be awesome. And the sad part is that really I was just extremely depressed. And I didn't I didn't feel like I had anything to live for other than Jesus. I didn't care about my body. I I had more of a Gnostic belief that we're just like flesh sacks that carry a soul, an eternal soul, right? So I didn't really care about my body, I didn't care about the earth, I cared about other people's souls, but I didn't really care as much about our present relationships here. And it was just kind of a perfect storm. So I started experiencing a lot of really violent, intrusive thoughts, like all the time. And sometimes I would see things, like, you know, kind of physically, or sometimes I just imagine it, whether it's like I imagine myself. I remember one time I was at Youth Group and I imagined myself hanging from a rope in the upstairs area for like no reason, or it was just always constant fear and paranoia of a school shooter coming into our school and you know, taking out the place, and or just constant obsession with being in the Middle East and being tortured for Jesus, and constantly trying to train myself and prepare myself to be ready for that, to be ready to be hurt and potentially killed for my faith, and prep and like prepping myself spiritually to say yes to that. And it it was just a lot, it was a lot, and and it really led into to suicidal idealization, and I do think it's kind of interesting because no one could tell, and if they could tell, nobody said anything. Not my youth leaders, not my parents, not my teachers, not my principal, not my pastors.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

No one knew.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

No one knew I think that the way that faith was taught to me

Martyrdom Thinking And Intrusive Images

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has a lot to blame for that. Because I hid it so well, because I was taught that's the right thing to do. Because it's attention seeking to be depressed, it's lazy to be depressed, it's demon possession to be depressed, it's faithless to be depressed. And so I smiled and I did a lot. I did a lot. I was very involved with people and activities and choir and youth group and definitely church. Um I did a lot. I did a lot and I I tried not to think about myself. I tried to always think to put other people first. Or even like I said, I wanted to be a missionary and be martyred, like and and no one saw through it. And if they did, I don't think they cared to ask or knew how. To the extent that I had a uh a teacher, and I remember I was standing outside waiting to be picked up from school, and I remember in that moment quite literally thinking about killing myself, about writing letters, about how I would do it. And I remember one of my teachers looking at me, there she is, smiling again. And it was such a like I I remember that moment to the day to this day. How well I'd put a smile on my face and put a mask on my face so that no one would know. And I am grateful because I had some people I did open up to, right? You know, I think I did have a few teachers that even though I didn't realize that's what I was doing, I was opening up to, right? I had a mentor kind of growing up, and I did have youth leaders that I would kind of open up to. So I suppose nobody knew, right? Except for the people that I kind of let in. I I think though, I think what's so heartbreaking about it is that some of the people I was closest to didn't know or didn't care to acknowledge what was going on. And now that I'm someone who does know the signs of depression, looking back, it's like, how did they not know? And it also makes me upset at the some of the toxic teachings that people use from the Bible to to suppress mental anguish. Because maybe I could have been helped sooner and more seriously if the church had been more educated well. So, for those of you who were there for me, for the teachers I did open up to, for the pastors who I were who were there for me, and the youth leaders, and the mentors, and the band members, thank you. Thanks for helping keep me alive. But it does sting. Knowing that as a kid, I had to kind of be the one to reach out for help rather than rather than a parent or a family member or someone just more around in my life reaching out to me. And I don't think I hold any wrong against you guys for that. But I I do hold the church accountable, or I guess in my mind, responsible for a lot of the ways that that was handled. Anyway, not to say my life was completely miserable. I had a lot of good things going, right? That's not what depression's about. Depression isn't just, oh, you have a fully horrible life. You could have a great life and be depressed. That's not how depression works, it kind of does its own thing. So as time went on, I went to college, and I think where I started realizing how serious my depression was, was driving started to become dangerous. I would get in my head about everything

Masking Depression In Plain Sight

SPEAKER_01 34:52

to the point that I would even start jerking the wheel. So I often fantasized about killing myself while driving and would have to correct, you know, the jerking of the wheel so that I didn't die. And I think when I told one of my closest friends that she took that very seriously, thankfully, and really pushed me to get some biblical counseling. Well, I did, and sad to say, it didn't help very much. Biblical counseling, at least the version I had. To say the least, probably not the healthiest or most helpful or most informed quote unquote counseling. They essentially had memorize a bunch of Bible verses. He even like, it was so bad. They just believed that like suicide was a sin and depression was a sin. Guys, it was just so bad. He literally told me, as a depressed suicidal client, that he one of his former clients killed himself because of heartbreak, and that he like basically idolized his relationship with his girlfriend so much or something. Or I don't remember how it was said that he killed himself. Oh my god, it is so bad, guys. It's so bad. Anyway, but you know, it kinda helped a little. I mean, it had someone to talk to. Let's just say the least, I didn't go there for long. Anyway, as the years went on, it just proceeded to get more and more intense. And I'd find myself nearly walking in front of buses. I would find myself nearly jumping off of the rooftop of the building we lived in. And guys, the thing about depression is like it also just really tints your worldview without you realizing it's happening. And so at this point in my life, I had really good friends, phenomenal friends, and especially you, Katya and Carolyn and Chloe, uh guys, and Mac, I can't thank you guys enough for your patience with me in this time. Because when I look back, I can see how toxic I was as a person. I can see how deeply my mind had changed and darkened my worldview, and I didn't know what was happening. And so the people that were closest to me, I demonized, but I didn't know that's what I was doing, guys. I sincerely was convinced that everyone was against me. I sincerely was convinced that my closest of friends who cared for me on a daily basis hated me, were mad at me, had something against me, were being mean to me when they weren't. They were trying to be there for me the best of their abilities. And most of them are in their early 20s. Like, of course they're gonna get it wrong sometimes, but they did a great job. And I I'm moored and I'm so sad that I treated my friends in the way that I did. And I'm sorry for that. But that's how real depression is. I don't think people realize it's not a voluntary mindset that you kind of cling to, that you want to, you want to be sad, you want to pity yourself, you wanna dig this hole, and you know, it's it's a mental condition. Whatever that means, I don't know. Some people think it's chemical imbalances, some people, I don't I don't know. There's so many different theories, but all I know is it's almost like this external force, but it's not, it's in your head, it's your brain working against you, and so literally, like before you know it, it's just the world is so dark. Everyone hates you, God hates you, you're

Driving Danger And Harmful Counseling

SPEAKER_01 39:11

a failure, and no matter what anybody says about how you can get better, how there is hope for you, how oh, I used to be suicidal, I used to have you know self-harmful tendencies, and look at me now, I'm better. No matter who it was, they could have been through much worse than you'd been through and felt much worse than you felt. They can say there's hope, there's a silver lining, and you just don't believe it. You become extremely cynical, or at least I did. And it felt like nothing anybody said helped. On top of that, I was not getting much sleep. I had a lot of insomnia, so if I did sleep a night, maybe be two or three hours, I had quite literal physical weakness, and this was before I had POTS symptoms. I remember one day I literally was in the living room, got up off my couch to walk somewhere, and just like collapsed on the wall. And again, this was literally pre-POTS. Okay, this I'm telling you right now, this was not a POTS episode. This was depression. This was my body feeling like it was made of rocks, like my muscles were so incredibly weak. I just had to lay back down on the couch. I did not want to keep living, guys. And I literally also had lost a job at one point. And the reason I lost the job was because of the drive, because I had suicidal thoughts on the drive and on the way home from the drive that I had to stop going to the job by myself because I could hurt myself in the process. So, to say the least, it really affected me every day. Sometimes all I could do to survive those times was put on these headphones and blare rock music, and I'd have just cover myself with darkness. I would lay in my bed, put stuffed animals over my eyes, blare music, and literally just try to survive the night.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

It was hell.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

To always be the one you feel like is responsible to hold up people around you and still not be strong enough to hold them. To always be the needy friend, the one that needs to be supported and held up. To have intrusive thoughts of very gory and graphic theme scenes just going through your head all of the time, and you can't get them out of your head. Like you're literally crazy, you're literally insane, bro. And it sucked. So everything kind of came to a halt, or a I don't know what you want to call it. July 4th, 2021. I sat on top of my roof. I hated fireworks. I was extremely jumpy. That's another symptom of depression that I had was extreme like jumpiness and agitation, and like, you know, always on edge, right? Actually, to this day, how I know when I'm not doing well is when

Rock Bottom On The Rooftop

SPEAKER_01 43:11

I'm very sensitive. Like my husband could like walk in the room and I'm like, ah, you know, or like, wow, you you live here and you're opening the door because you live here, and I'm all of a sudden in fight or flight, terrified, like yeah. I knew I was jumpy, I knew that the 4th of July was not something I enjoyed, and they were setting off fireworks right at the park right outside our door, and I sat on the roof and kind of like on the ledge a little bit, and essentially was allowing myself to be scared to the point of kind of hoping or knowing that it could jolt me off the edge. And I don't know what pulled me back down. Some something did. I think that's just when I realized like I gotta get. Help. Guys, I did not want to do this episode. I knew this was gonna happen. My friend Chloe, I I talked to her, and again, thanks Chloe for being there for me. I know it wasn't easy. And I just was like, I feel like I've tried everything. I've tried everything and everything's helpless and nothing's working and all this stuff. And she was like, That's not true. You haven't gone to the mental hospital. You haven't tried medication. So guess what we did? She drove me to the mental hospital, and I was admitted for a total of five days, and it sucked. Hate the mental hospital. Bro, sign me up for a bad time. It sucked. I was the type and am the type of person that, guys, my acid reflex keeps bubbling and it's making me mad because I know it sounds weird and sounds gross, and I'm just getting frustrated. Anyway, I've always been the type of person that when I'm upset, I like to eat rather than not eat, right? I experienced that increase of appetite and weight gain rather than the lack of appetite and weight loss. Well, if it tells you how extreme distress I was in when I went to the mental hospital, they sat me down in a room and sat me across from this, I guess, therapist lady. I don't really know. And she essentially, you know, evaluated me, asked what my suicidal plans were, idealizations, all that good info. And they brought me food and I could not eat at all. Like I I could just literally no appetite. I was so incredibly distraught. No. Depressions, depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and insomnia medication. And for the most part, I did start to sleep. So that's good. And it kind of just gave me the space to actually deal with myself and deal with myself in a way that I would not have the chance to end myself. Because you're being monitored, right? At least where I was, I was being monitored, and every 15 minutes they would come in and check and make sure I was okay and essentially still alive, right? So not a ton of opportunity to harm myself. I thought of a way or two while I was in there that I could have, but they try their best to remove those obstacles so that you are generally safe.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Well, it helped.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Going to group therapy, getting medication, having people constantly look after you and make sure you're okay. It helped me survive those five days. And it helped me build up tools for the future. And I want to show you guys a little bit more details about what it was like in the mental hospital. I wrote this little like I don't even know, it's not really a poem, but just like a verbal, I don't know, some sort of thought process when I was in the mental hospital. We'll call it a journal entry. Have you ever met a man who almost hung himself the night before? A woman running from her baby daddy who beats her a young woman who hears voices another who can't do anything but sleep all day? Have you ever been at a hospital that

Inside The Mental Hospital

SPEAKER_01 48:01

seems so normal until alarms go off and a man screams? Have you ever met them? Have you ever? Have you ever met a woman with a large scar on her chin and she's blind to her depression? She's numb and doesn't even know it. A woman who has tried everything, yet it all seems to fail. Have you ever met them? Have you ever? Have you ever played basketball with a woman who was dead from hanging herself a week ago? Have you ever met a man with bandages up his wrists and a weakness that forces him into a wheelchair? Have you ever met someone so anxious they never stop rocking, so confused they forget to eat? Have you ever met someone so tormented they almost attack another patient? Have you ever met them? Have you ever? Have you ever met someone trigger word seriously trigger word raped four times so they find their meaning in a mental hospital? Someone who accidentally led another man drown, a roommate with homicidal thoughts. Have you ever met them? Have you ever? I think the most jarring story from when I was in the mental hospital was a woman there who had shot herself in the face. And she her face was torn up. And she was so disillusioned about how depressed she was. Like she she was convinced she was fine. She was like, oh, I'll never do that again. It was a one-time thing. I'm fine. And you could just tell being around her how clearly unstable she was. And it was just like, lady, like you need to look in the mirror. You need to see what you did to yourself. And I think that's something we need to do.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Maybe look in the mirror and see what we're doing to ourselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

However, a cool story about the mental hospital. I know this is also dark, but it is the reality of depression. And again, that's kind of why I wanted to share it. When I was in the mental hospital, a big part of it was due to deconstructing my faith. And that is something I think I will always be doing for the rest of my life. I know that that's a hot topic word, and a lot of you probably have lots of different emotions about it, but that's just the reality for me. I'm always questioning what I believe, I'm always digging into it, I'm always thinking about it, I'm always asking questions, I'm always unsure, and I'm at a place where that's okay. But at the time it wasn't. At the time it was devastating. I was realizing some horrible, horrible ways that my father acted and who he really was. And I did have kind of like a kind of complicated relationship with someone, but not really. Anyway, it was a lot in my head. I believe was her name. And she was a nurse from Jamaica. And she came into my room one night when I was reading the Bible. Because through all of this, deconstructing or not, depressed or not, I was extremely devout. I read my Bible every single day. I journaled a lot and prayed a lot. And every time I journaled, I was journaling to God. And she came in one day when I was I was reading the Bible, and she said something along the lines of, D do you believe? Do you believe in Jesus? And I said, Yeah. I was like desperate.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

I was like, Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

And I don't I I don't remember. I have it in a journal somewhere, and I was gonna read the journal to you guys, but I literally don't know where I put it. But if my memory serves me right, she grabbed me by the face, she looked me in the eyes, and she said, God has a plan for you. Satan wants you in here, and he wants to ruin your life, but Jesus loves you, and he has a plan for you. Highly against protocol. She probably could have gotten fired, and if I were in a certain spiritual mental state, her doing that actually might have hurt me. But it happened to be just what I needed.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

And to this day, I will always be grateful.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

And the thought really was, wow. God knew that I would be in this situation. And so years ago, he called Carrie to study nursing and then moved to the US. And in this particular hospital that I would be in today, she was in my room, and she had the courage to say something that could have potentially gotten her fired. And that deeply helped me. Now, generally, when I say that's what you should do in the hospital, probably not. There's a lot of patients that I think, if they are deconstructing, that could actually hurt them. And there's a lot of people that don't believe in Jesus, that again, that might hurt them. But I am grateful for Carrie. I am grateful for the courage that she had to tell me that Jesus loved me. And I think that she did that somewhat out of respect, knowing, seeing that I was reading the Bible, knowing that I was a Christian. She asked me if I believed first, you know. So I am grateful for the way that she approached me that day. And I will always find that kind of a miracle. And I know everybody defines miracles differently, and everybody has things that are like, this is such a big God moment for me. And then other people are like, bro, that was literally just her doing that, which is you know, you can believe what you want about that. Every Christian has different thoughts and miracles and stuff too. But that's what it felt like to me. It felt like a miracle. And it really encouraged me. It really did. Funny fact though, also about when I was in the mental hospital, you know that mask that I was talking about that I was good at putting up, right? And I would smile, and my teacher would tell me I was so joyful, even though I was literally presently at that moment contemplating suicide. These nurses literally asked me if I was like a like they didn't, I don't know if it's a secret agent,

Faith Deconstruction And A Nurse’s Words

SPEAKER_01 55:11

but they said something along the lines of, Are you a secret agent sent by our boss? Like they literally thought I was like an undercover person sent to like see how they're doing at their job because I just mask, mask so well, even at the mental hospital when I wasn't trying to, bro. Anyways, it's fine. It's fine. So you might wonder okay, where are you at today? Where am I at today? Fabulous question. I wish that I could answer that on this really cool positive note about how in that moment I remember Jesus' love and I repented and I accepted the Holy Spirit, and then this light shone, and I was never depressed again. Hallelujah! That would be great. However, that's unfortunately not my story. Disappointing. I know, I know. You can hold your booze, okay? But I'm alive, aren't I? I think that's pretty freaking great. So things that really helped. Ding medication. Adjusting to the antidepressants was very difficult. Within the first two months, I was extremely dizzy and felt extremely fatigued. And so the first two months of antidepressants wasn't great. And though that medicine did get me through a year, a few years of survival, it did buffer out kind of the intense emotions altogether, which means I didn't experience extreme happiness or extreme sadness. I was kind of just in the middle. So I survived, but it was also kind of anticlimactic. So, you know, medication ding ding for the win. I'm no longer on antidepressants as of right now. Totally open to taking them again in the future if I find need for them again. Other things that helped were a safety plan we had at the mental hospital before we leave. Left, left. A way to create a safety plan, which was essentially, all right, what are the warning signs that I know that I'm starting to experience an extreme depressive episode, right? Some of them for me were jumpiness. And some of them for me were probably, I don't even remember, probably demonizing my friends, things like that. Nightmares, insomnia, etc. And then you identified, all right, who are some immediate people that I can call to help me, right? Who are friends, who are family, who are doctors, therapists, hotlines, things like that that I can call to get me through those moments of intensity. And what are other ways that I can cope? Can I go for a walk? Can I go to the gym? Can I paint on myself rather than hurting my skin? Things like that were extremely helpful as well as going to Celebrate Recovery. If you don't know what that is, I highly recommend they kind of they're like small groups that help people through their habits first and hangups is what they say. They're like a Christian organization. Anyway, I had a good experience with them personally. I think lots of people have a mixed experience, but I I had a great experience with Celebrate Recovery. Sometimes sleeping on the couch, if I was feeling extremely self-harmful or suicidal, I'd put myself in the middle of the living room in between all my roommates' bedrooms so that, you know, anytime throughout the night or in the morning, they would see me. And so I couldn't just hurt myself in private, and I didn't want to hurt my roommates by hurting myself in front of them, you know what I'm saying? So that was kind of a safe buffer. Sometimes I would have night terrors, and the way that I like to describe night terrors, I think everybody's different, and I'm not sure what the like professional technical term is, but for me it meant even after I woke up, I was still essentially experiencing illusions of that dream. And so I remember one night, even again after the hospital, I think, I had a very extreme night terror where I woke up and still heard the screaming of the person from my dream going on and on. And guys, it was like blood-curdling scream, and it was someone I loved dearly, it was so bad. And Katia, my roommate, was extremely gracious enough to let me literally slip into her bed and sleep with her. Like in the middle of the night, I came into her room crying, and she just no problem, like opened the door, and in her half-awake state, loved me enough to do that. And looking back, I'm like, wow, that was not her responsibility. She did not have to do that, and I think it shows how vulnerable I was at the state I was in, and kind of embarrassing. But thank you, Katy. I I appreciate you and and your love for me. Thanks for helping me survive. Therapy, you guys, you gotta go to therapy. Highly recommend. Where I'm at now, I still get depressed. I think probably at least once a month, maybe there's one day I'm just almost stuck in bed. Maybe that's ex a little too large of a number, but just so in my head and sad and scared of people and whatever it is, that I'm kind

Medication Safety Plans And Support

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

of just in bed. And even talking is takes a immeasurable amount of strength and energy. I'm sorry. It's harder to talk about the present, I think. I think right now it's taking form of again demonizing my friends and the people who love me, isolating me, even though I really like being around people.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

It's tiring and it just feels heavy.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

And I think where I'm at right now is in a weird way forgetting what happiness feels like. But I am grateful to say that I've had a few experiences lately with my husband and with my friend Emma that reminded me of what fun was like, reminded me of what happiness was like. And to be completely vulnerable, I think that depression is playing a part right now in making me feel hopeless about my physical goals, and so it has been harder to take care of myself. It has been harder to to have goals and and to stick to those goals. When generally I'm a very disciplined person. But when depression rears its ugly head, it just it has a way of making you think that all of your efforts are in vain and that nothing's gonna get better no m no matter how hard you try, so why try? And it's not true. But that's just how it makes you feel. Right now, I would say genuinely I'm d doing pretty well. Not awesome, and I have a lot of improvement to do, if you guys would mind praying for me in that journey. But I'm glad to say that I'm not suicidal, and I don't think I've been seriously suicidal in a long time. I do have seasons of suicidal thoughts, but not not so serious as a plan. Probably the last time it was that bad was like maybe about half a year ago. I'd lost someone else I love deeply to suicide, and so that sure has a way of making it much more real. Well, I know this has been a really long episode. I sure am tired talking about all of this, and I'm very appreciative that you've taken your time to spend with me. I think some things that have helped me biblically to survive this that I'd like to leave you with. I remember feeling so abandoned. And one time, one thing that really helped me through it was as I was agonizing. I was just like, God, you've abandoned me. Why have you abandoned me? I feel like you've abandoned me. And I remember being in my little prayer closet in college and hearing like Leah Ann, I have experienced true abandonment. Remember on the cross when Jesus was like, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? I experienced true abandonment. You will never know what that is like. I promise you that I will never leave nor forsake you. And somehow knowing that Christ has experienced the feeling of abandonment further than I have, and he's God, and he chose to go through that was extremely comforting to me. And another one that I think I use a lot is when Jesus was in the garden and he said, God, can you take this cup from me? Can essentially, you know, can we change the plan? I don't want to die. And he said, But your your will be done and not mine. But I think the thing that clung to me the most was the agony that he also experienced. And something about having that high priest that relates to us that gets our struggles. I don't know. It's like it's like when you sit with a friend who's been through the same experience as you and the same trauma as you and made it through and is able to comfort you in a way that nobody else could. I think that's kind of what it was like. So if you're listening and you also struggle with major depressive disorder, depression, you know, or seasons of it, whatever that looks like, or any other mental health condition, I want you to know nobody else knows your experience. And I can talk my head off trying to encourage you, trying to say that there's hope for you, trying to say that you're not alone, trying to say all the cliches. But when you are in that spot, reality is just so. Tainted that even those words of encouragement feel like they're used, like they're useless, like they're fruitless. And though nobody else has gone through what you're going through in the body, in the mind, in the lens that you are experiencing, even if you don't believe it. I believe there's hope for you. I know there are people that love you. I know there's a community waiting that would love to be there for you, Christians with chronic illnesses. We have a group chat on Facebook and Discord, and a group call every single Tuesday at 4 p.m. CST on Discord. We'd love to be there for you. But seriously, like I have hope for you, even if you can't have hope for yourself. I have hope that you are going to find a community that'll love you. And I have hope. Knowing that belief in God can help too. And if you're not there, if you're in the depths of deconstruction like I was, trust me, I get it. That's okay. Just know that there is no need for shame in what you're going through. You can trust the people around you who have shown you love. Not everybody is against you. You can feel happy again, and you can find meaning in feeling happy again. And I know it might feel like you've tried everything, it might feel like you've done what you can, but I will ask you to reconsider. Have you done therapy? Have you tried different medications? Did you know that there are brain surgeries for depression? Like if you are at your wit's end and you feel like you've tried everything, and I mean everything, there are probably more resources, extreme resources that you might not have considered.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:23

If you're not happy and you feel like you've never been happy, the answer doesn't have to be the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:45

But I hope you'll find it. Love you guys. Thanks for listening to part of my story. Bye. Thank you so much for being a part of the Christians with Chronic Illnesses community. Please remember to follow Rate and subscribe to the show. You can also follow us on our socials at CWCI Podcast. And if you're interested in sharing your story, please email us at cwcipodcast at gmail.com. If you are interested in contributing to

Hope Community And Closing Resources

SPEAKER_01 1:09:11

the production of Christians with chronic illnesses, please see the show notes below for subscription starting as low as $1 a month, or email us for a more direct way to give. This show is hosted and produced by Ellie Sprague, and our incredible logo, thumbnail, and overall CWCI artist is Brianna Middleton. This show is intended for entertainment and encouragement purposes only. Please talk to your doctor before trying anything you hear on this show. Until next Monday.