PCOS, Endometriosis, and Pastoring with Kylie Wicker

She’s a family pastor in Alaska, a lifelong Nazarene, and someone who goes home after church and crashes on the couch in pain. Kylie joins us to talk about what it’s like to lead in ministry while living with PCOS and suspected endometriosis, including chronic fatigue, inflammation, brain fog, and the quiet grief of realizing you can’t do what you used to do. If you’ve ever wondered how faith holds up when symptoms don’t let up, this conversation gets honest fast. 

We dig into what PCOS can look like beyond the textbook, why endometriosis is so hard to diagnose, and how daily management can affect everything from food choices to motivation to energy for work. Kylie also shares how getting a clear diagnosis can be both heavy and relieving because at least you know what you’re up against. Along the way, we talk about church life, accessibility, and how chronic illness can make you more attentive to the needs people rarely say out loud. 

Then we go deeper into theology and hope. Kylie explains why “God gives us everything we need” doesn’t mean “God gives us everything we want,” and how she resists prosperity-gospel pressure while still trusting God’s presence and provision. We talk about 2 Peter 1:3–4, what to hold onto in flare-ups, and how to think about God’s care when someone is terminally ill. We also share practical ways to encourage pastors with chronic illness, because pastors are people too. 

Subscribe, rate, and share Christians With Chronic Illnesses, then leave a review and tell us what part of Kylie’s story you want to hear more about.

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Pastor Kylie

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I'm your Jesus loving and party host, Ellie Sprague. Welcome to Christians with Chronic Illnesses.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Kylie, thank you so much for being on Christians with Chronic Illnesses. I really appreciate your willingness. And I'm excited to hear your story. You're the first pastor that I've interviewed, let alone pastor with a chronic illness. And I think more uniquely too, you're a woman. So thanks so much for being on the show. I think that you're gonna have a lot of interesting insight.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

I hope so. Thanks for having me and for doing this. I really just think that this podcast is a tremendous opportunity for the intersection of faith and chronic illness, and that hopefully it can spark more conversations and a and a bigger group of us.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Yeah, I hope so. That's the hope. Oh, thanks. That's encouraging.

What A Family Pastor Does

SPEAKER_03 1:06

So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah. So, like LA said, my name is Kylie. I'm a pastor in the Church of the Nazarene. I currently work as kind of a family pastor up in Alaska. I'm married to my husband Bailey. We've been married for five years. I've got a German shepherd. I like a lot of nerdy things, and just kind of try to enjoy the parts of life that I can when I'm not flaring or dealing with problems, and just really grateful for any opportunity to talk about Christ and my life. And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

What's a family pastor?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Yeah, so I have a really long title, so I shorten it to family pastor. But effectively, what I do is I serve in a couple of different roles. So I serve as the kids' pastor, so I lead all of our kids' programming with my wonderful base of volunteers. So I'm not always everywhere all at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Good.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

I also do youth group when we gather, and I also lead our outreach events. So we do things like drive-in style movie nights. There's actually one happening tomorrow. That's so I'll yeah, I'll kind of lead that and other, you know, community events that we do, community interactions. I do our social media. I just kind of try and make sure that our church is a place that families would feel welcome and that we have people in place to kind of take care of the whole lifespan of a person from little tiny baby all the way up to grandparents or great-grandparents. And there's only one other pastor on staff, the senior pastor, and we're a small church. So I also just kind of do anything that needs to get done.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

If it needs to happen, I'm doing it. I think later today on my schedule is to go clean the carpets downstairs. How exciting. Whatever needs to happen, but my emphasis is on outreach to families and making sure that our church is a place that families feel welcomed and supported, and that the whole family is able to learn about Christm, no matter how old they are.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. Do you guys focus at all like on I know you're talking about family from birth to you know being elderly, feeling comfortable in the church? Do you guys do anything specifically for singles in your church?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

So our church is primarily grandparent-age people right now. The church kind of goes through a life cycle, and right now we don't have a lot of young people in the church. So we're kind of just hoping and praying and looking for any way to attract young people. And the easiest way to attract young people, honestly, is through their kids. If there's like a fun thing for moms and dads to do with their kids, it's easier for them to come. Um, so it's not that we wouldn't focus, like if we had a bunch of singles people, I'd run a singles ministry. If we had a bunch of college-age kids, I'd do a college ministry. Kind of, kind of whatever would need to happen, I would do. But at least specifically in our context with the age of our church, we know that we need young families. We need young people with young kids to keep us alive and keep us going. But I do I try to keep in mind with every activity that I do that I don't want just young kids and their parents. I want this activity to be fun and exciting for the whole and open to everybody in every age.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Okay, cool. So you're a family pastor. You like gaming. Like you said, board games is what you told me in their pre-interview.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Board games, video games, card games. Are you a streamer? I am not. You're not.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Okay, I was gonna say we can host your we can plug your channel right now.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Oh my gosh. Okay, well, I wish my husband and I have talked about starting a channel where he plays games and I commentate on them. That's okay. Because he finds my commentary hilarious. But we don't have time in our life right now. He works and then DoorDashes after work because you gotta pay the bills. But yeah, no, I I'm not a streamer. Sometimes I watch streamers really just play from the comfort of our couch and I make up funny voices and call the characters by funny things that aren't their names.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

That's so sweet. That's so sweet. So you said that you are a family pastor of a Nazarene church, right?

Why The Nazarene Church Feels Like Home

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Okay, so do you like I want to hear more about your faith? So is like Nazarene a big part of like who you are and your identity? Is that the church that you just happen to pastor?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, it is a big part. So my grandparents kind of were some starting forces of a church in Portland, Oregon. They're not pastors, they're lay people, but they're they just have a heart for the Lord, and so we're kind of very influential in starting their church, and then my parents met because of school and also that church, and my dad is an ordained pastor in the Church of the Nazarene. My mom is an ordained pastor in the Church of the Nazarene. I think this, I think the story is that my mom was at worship practice with me on a Tuesday night and her water broke, and that next Sunday I was in church in a Nazarene church in a tiny little town in Oregon. So I've been a Nazarene my whole life. I have explored other churches and gone to other meetings, and none of it has felt like home. I'm on track to be ordained myself, either this year or next year. Wow. So we have different levels of ministry of recognized ministry in the church. Okay. So you could just have like a local license where your local church is like, yeah, God called them to do ministry. I have a district license, so my district, which is the state of Alaska, has recognized my call to ministry and has affirmed me. And so I have the power to, as my dad calls it, marry and bury people. I can host weddings, I can host funerals, I can offer the sacraments, I can, I could be a senior pastor if I wanted to be, and if God called me to be. But every year I go through a process of interviewing and studying, and I had to take so I have two degrees, but separate to those because they weren't from a Nazarene university. I had to take a separate course of study in the Church of the Nazarene specific classes and specific classes from a Nazarene perspective. And so every year I have to affirm that I'm in accordance with the Church of the Nazarene, that I'm living according to our covenant of Christian conduct, that I am teaching what the Church of the Nazarene teaches, and every year I get interviewed and then they renew me. And so ordination is kind of the final step of that, where the whole church, the whole global Church of the Nazarene, as represented by your district and the general superintendent, we have four in the Church of the Nazarene and they rotate. So the one that's responsible for your section of the globe at the time of your ordination meets with you and kind of says, as the global church, we back you and your ministry, and it is fruitful and you're doing a good job. And so then we don't have to be interviewed every year. And at that point, I could serve at higher levels. So right now, a senior pastor would be the highest level I could serve. But when I'm ordained, I could serve on district boards, I could serve as a district superintendent, I could serve as a global or a general superintendent. There's a whole bunch of like bureaucratic roles that I could serve in as an ordained elder in the Church of the Nazarene. And I'm not really interested necessarily in any of that, but I've just known from a very young age that this is what I want to do and this is my church. And I just really, I don't know, it's it's one of those things where you just feel like this is something you need to do, something you want to do. So I've been working for this for a while, and yeah, the the Church of Nazarene just feels like home and feels like the right place for me to be and the right fit theologically. And I love that we're a global church, and that I could go to pretty much any country in the world, pretty much any city in the world, and find Nazarene Church and be at home with my brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

Yeah, that's really cool. Excuse me. So you feel like the Nazarene church just feels kind of like home for you?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We're yeah, we're a holiness denomination, so we focus a lot on living a holy life through Christ, and that through his power we don't have to succumb to sin every day, and that through his power we can look more and more like him every day from now until eternity when we get to look like him perfectly. And I just love the freedom in Christ that the church teaches, the victory that we find when we can lean on his power to say no to the things that we struggle with, and it's just really focused on that aspect of like supporting one another to just be more and more like Christ.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. I also love what you mentioned about like that every year you're kind of held accountable, and I think that's super important.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Absolutely. And even after you're ordained, you're still held accountable, you still have a boss over you, even the general superintendents, there's a board over them, and so there's this big cyclical thing where I'm responsible as an associate, not only to my senior pastor, but I'm responsible to the board and I'm responsible to the congregation. And so it's the same as my senior pastor, you know, and we as a church are responsible to our district, who's responsible to the global church, who's responsible to us. And so there's this really strong network of support and care and making sure that you have what you need to succeed in ministry, and the process to get ordained is not easy. They don't just let anyone in. You really have to kind of go through the ringer a little bit because they want to be sure that the people that they're promoting as being called by God and gifted by God and graced for the ministry actually are and are gonna do the right thing and be the right people and not have any moral failures or any character flaw, you know, failures. I mean, we all have flaws, but just to make sure that we really are doing our best so that our pastors can be the best that they can be, so that our congregations can be the best that they can be.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Yeah. How long have you been pastoring now?

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Uh so I got my first district license in 2020, and I served at my grandparents' church in Portland through college. So about five years. And how old were you then? So I started college in 2017, I was 18. So I think you're like 21 when you started pastoring 21 when I got my district license, and I'm 26 now. So I've been in ministry for the past five years, paid position for the past three years in two different churches. But my time as an intern at my grandparents' church was just so special, and I really loved my senior pastor there, and that was the church that I went to when I was a kid that my parents went to, and so it was really fun to get to to serve with them all and to feel like I was giving back to the church that shaped me. And then they were also excited when I got my first paid position, and God called me to a new church, and then I served as a youth pastor for about 18 months in a church in Washington, and then God closed that door, and we had a really intense, very stressful waiting period of about four months, and then he called us up here. So we've been in Alaska for just over a year, it was a year at the beginning of August.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Wow, okay, so now you're in the beautiful state of Alaska.

unknown 14:33

That's great.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Yeah. So I know that you've had some unique challenges being a pastor, and I would love to get into those and hearing those.

PCOS And Endometriosis Explained

SPEAKER_03 14:42

So you have some chronic health issues. Why don't you tell us a little bit about those?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Sure. So the biggest one is PCOS, which stands for polycystic ovarian syndrome. And so it's very complicated as every chronic illness uh diagnosis is. Yeah. But the simplest, the simplest way to explain it is that my ovaries are twice as large and have twice as many nodes in them as a regular ovary. So I don't have like twice as many eggs. My ovaries just decided to be extra and have too many rooms in them. And so that causes hormonal problems because, of course, your reproductive organs control your hormone production. So I have an overproduction of testosterone, and some people with PCOS have an overproduction of androgens. And so that leads to really heavy periods, really inconsistent periods, really painful periods. It leads to, you know, cycles where it's like three months and you don't have a period, or you get three in a month. Because what happens is that your ovaries don't release the egg at a proper time. Some months they might release some release multiple eggs, you just don't know. But it also is a metabolic disorder. So a lot of people with PCOS develop insulin resistance. So your body needs insulin to produce to process the glucose that you eat. And on a cell, there's like a section for glucose and a section for insulin. And if your cell won't accept the insulin, your cell can't accept the glucose. So then your body stores it as extra fat. And then your body produces more insulin because your cells are telling your body that you don't have enough insulin. And so then it just develops into this. You have excess insulin, you have excess glucose. Oh my goodness. But your cells aren't really absorbing what they need to absorb. So it leads to chronic inflammation, chronic fatigue, chronic pain. Wow. Just like all of the fun little symptoms, because your body just doesn't know how to do what it's supposed to do. And as with most things that affect women only, there's not a lot of research into it. So they don't really know why it happens or how to help you. They can really only help if you're trying to get pregnant and you're not ovulating. Then they can give you hormones to force your body to ovulate, but that's really all they can do. I also have suspected endometriosis. Suspected because I just don't want to get the surgery for them to verify. Yeah. But it's as pretty much confirmed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

So what's endometriosis?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Endometriosis is when your uterus wants to grow its lining anywhere it can, including outside of your uterus. Whoa. So people with endometriosis, their uterus, again, it like leads to some of the same symptoms of PCOS, where you have really heavy periods or a lack of periods or whatever. And endometriosis and PCOS can also both cause cysts in your reproductive area.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Which which can make maintaining a pregnancy difficult if you have cysts and the stuff can't grow and whatever. But also endometriosis, your uterine lining can grow basically anywhere at once. In your abdomen cavity, up by your lungs. They found people with uterine lining on the back of their eyeballs before. Yeah, it's wacky. And again, we don't know why it happens, and we can't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

So, what's the severity if that happens?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

So the only thing they can do is go in and like scrape out the extra lining.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

And what like what issues can that cause if there's like lining growing where it's not supposed to? Does that just be where it's not?

SPEAKER_00 19:14

It can cause pain. Yeah, it can cause pain, it can cause organ dysfunction, it can cause just, I mean, essential, it's not cancer, but think about the problems that are caused when cancer happens because excess cells are in places they shouldn't be. There's just excess tissue where it shouldn't be, and so it can cause a lot of problems. You can grow scar tissue where you shouldn't have scar tissue, just like the whole kitten caboodle. So yeah, it's it's hard, and they can't diagnose it unless they scope. So unless they put a camera in your belly, they can't tell for sure if you have endo because it won't show up on an MRI or a CT scan or an ultrasound.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Because it's just tissue.

unknown 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

So it won't show up.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

So how what makes you suspect that like you're pretty sure that you have it? What are some of those symptoms or red flags for you?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

PCOS and endo are chronic conditions, even if you have a total hysterectomy, you still have them. All of the symptoms of PCOS combined with the fact that I have these other symptoms that don't necessarily fit PCOS. So, like the only treatment they have for endo and PCOS is birth control. And I'm on birth control. But normally you should be able to decide to take continuous birth control. So not take a week of sugar pills. I can't do that. If I do that, I just bleed constantly. Whoa. Oh my goodness. Um yeah, I tried. It did not go well, it was not very fun. Oh wow. And there's just like there were just a couple of other factors. I don't know specifically because there is a lot of overlap, but it was like the amount of overlap and the birth control thing that my doctors were like, we're pretty sure that you probably also have endometriosis. Yeah. And my doctor was like, we can do the scope if you would like, but I really don't want to if I don't have to, because I don't really want to do surgery if I don't need to do surgery. So we just decided against it, but they put it on my chart because they were like 98% sure. Yeah. It's just one of those things where we just were like, okay, pretty much probably have that.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Yeah. So what kind of symptoms does it cause having PCOS and maybe endometriosis? I don't know if you want to talk about them separately, what kinds of symptoms they can cause. I don't know if they're the same, but for you personally, what are some Symptoms that you experience.

Chronic Pain Fatigue And Food Limits

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah. So I have a lot of chronic pain. Pretty much constantly in pain in one form or another. Wow. So my joints hurt like all the time.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Oh my gosh. I didn't. This makes me want to cry. I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Like that was my knees are so bad. I have like very painful knees. My I have back pain in my lower back that's not sciatica. So it's like completely separate. My hips, just my body, the way my body is shaped, my hips tip up a little bit more in the back than most people. So my hips hurt, and then my back is like squished a little bit. And so because of the curve in my back, it just hurts extra. I get headaches pretty fair, pretty frequently, just like general pain all the time. I bruise so easily. I could like stand still and do nothing all day and wake up tomorrow and have a bruise somewhere. I don't know why. I have a massive bruise on my thigh right now, and my husband and I tried to think of anything that could have caused it. We have no idea. And then I'm like, I have I'm tired all the time. I get eight hours of sleep. I am exhausted constantly. I've I have very little energy. And then I like use all of my energy working, you know, because if I'm running around with an eight-year-old and a 10-year-old, I gotta have energy. If we have our five-year-old come, I gotta have energy for the five-year-old. And so then I go home and I crash. And there's like a lot of executive dysfunction that comes in when you're in pain all the time. Like my brain just doesn't want to because I'm just so tired and in so much pain. And so I just have like very limited motivation for things that I don't feel like are a requirement. So like I have to come to work and I have to do these things because nobody else, like that's my job. Nobody else would do them if I couldn't come do them. That's not to say I can't take time off. I'm taking next week off and I have people doing things. But like somebody's got to plan it, somebody's gotta do it, somebody's gotta make it. It's your job. Yeah, and this is my job, and this is my passion, and so this is what I do. But it means that like when I'm home on a day off, I often don't have motivation or energy to do the things I want to do. Like the last weekend I managed to like actually bake for the first time and forever. And I was like so proud of myself. I sent pictures to like all of my best friends. I was like, girl, look, I made bread.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Oh, what you what kind of bread did you make?

SPEAKER_00 24:50

I bought this very nice, very fancy organic red wheat bread. Okay, and just like made a sandwich loaf and it's very tasty. One of the other main, one of the other main factors for me is inflammation. So I'm based of I'm functionally allergic to milk. I'm intolerant to lactose, and I'm also intolerant to casein, which is the other protein in milk. And you can take meds for lactose intolerance, but you can't do anything about casein intolerance. So as much as physically possible, I try to be dairy-free. And then with my P2S diagnoses and everything, I try really hard to have like a low inflammation diet. And then I am like plus sized, I do weigh more than the typical 26-year-old. And those numbers have never concerned my doctors. My doctor up here is just really wants to make sure that I continue to have healthy numbers, and so losing a little bit of weight would be good for that, andor gaining muscle. So I have like very specific things I can and can't eat, and so the list is a is rather long. Yeah. And so that takes a lot of work too, because any meal recipe that I find, I have to adjust and figure out what I want to do. And I don't track calories or macros or anything because that's not very helpful for me. But I do keep in mind, like, okay, this is what I've had to eat. This is how often I can have this, that, or the other thing. I really try to limit carbs in the morning. Um, so to the best of my ability, I just don't eat carbs before like 10 a.m., which makes me really sad. Oh, I like bread. But I but I feel better when I don't have carbs in the morning. And then I just try to like make sure that I have as many combination, like I always combo my protein with a fat and a fiber. But yeah, my tummy hurts all the time. There's shirts out there that are like hot girl equals tummy problems. That's that's me. I have tummy problems all the time. Um but yeah, so there's just like a whole host of everything, and I didn't deal with most of this before I got married. So a lot of it got like after I got married, is when the symptoms started to get really bad. So it was just like it's just been a total life shift and a total new way of thinking about my capabilities and my abilities, and I often have little little mental cry sessions in the car with Jesus on my way home from work or from my couch about how I can or can't do X, Y, or Z that I want to do or that I feel like I should be able to do.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

Do you feel like it's sorry? Do you feel like there's things that you used to be able to do that you can't now?

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Oh, absolutely. When we first got our dog, I used to be able to walk him a mile, a mile and a half, two miles a day. And well, now it's winter, so we don't really walk often because it's icy. But in the summer, it was like all I could do to do a half mile. And then I just hurt too bad and I couldn't breathe.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

And we just have to go home. I used to not have joint pain, so I could like crawl around on the floor with hiddos, and it was fine. I used to have more energy, and so you know, participating in more activities with my youth group or with kids or whatever was like easier. I used to have so much more energy and motivation in general that I used to like make bagels once a week and also all of these other things, and also keep the house really clean on top of working. Like I used to be able to just do more things in a day and be less in pain about it.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Yeah. Impressive you used to make bagels every week.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

I love bagels, they're so tasty. I I would make eight bagels because that's how much a batch makes, and I eat one as my little snack for making bagels, and then I'd have one for every day of the week.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

You should send me a good bagel recipe.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

So simple. I'll do it. I'll email you one.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Man, that's so sad that you can't do those things anymore. Do you know what? Yeah, like any idea what kind of set off the symptoms to be more aggressive?

SPEAKER_00 29:47

No. So my so we got married in May of 2020, and by that Thanksgiving, I just couldn't eat dairy anymore. I don't know what it is, I don't know what caused it.

The Ultrasound That Revealed PCOS

SPEAKER_00 30:01

You know, I do know that with like everybody's body has like an amount of lactase, which is the enzyme that helps you break down milk. And some people just don't have enough to begin with. Those are the kids that are lactose intolerant from like birth, and some people it just runs out later in life, and I just ran out of it. But when it was like I had graduated and we had moved to my first pastorate, and as we were going, things were just getting harder and harder. And I actually went to the doctor for something fairly unrelated. I was having problems with my pelvic floor being too tight, so any form of vaginal interference was very painful. So I actually went to the doctor about that because I was like, what the heck? Yeah, so she was like, let's do an ultrasound to see if there's fibroids or something, you know, what could be causing this pain? Because fibroids are like attached to the muscle and makes it so muscles don't move very well. So we go in and they did an external and an internal ultrasound. She did not warn me about the internal ultrasound. I'm so glad I had my husband with me because that hurt so bad. I was like white knuckling him the whole time. The poor nurse was so sweet. She's like, I'm so sorry. I just need to move it. I just need to move it. And I like could hardly move afterwards. So he drove home. And she does everything and she takes pictures of everything, and she's like, Okay, so I'm gonna send it into the radiologist or whoever reads ultrasounds, and they'll contact you, you know, in a little bit, like tomorrow or something. So we're driving home and we're like less than 10 minutes out of the appointment, and I get a notification on my my chart that my results are in. And of course, my doctor hasn't had time to review them yet, right? But I'm like, let me see. So I click on it and it's like telling me the volume of my ovaries and how big they're reading and how many nodules there are. And I'm like, wonder what it's supposed to be. Like, I wonder what it is. What's the average amount? And I Google it and I'm like, oh no, that doesn't look right. That's a problem. I don't know why, but it is. So we didn't find any fibroids or reasons for pain. I just have a really tight pelvic floor. Oh no, I've done the physical therapy for it. We're working on it. It was just like, it was just like, here's this, and so then my doctor messages me. And she's like, Hey, this is a thing, we gotta talk about it at your upcoming appointment. And so I had Googled, you know, Google Doctor, and I had like essentially figured out that this basically means PCOS, and had figured out a little bit about it, and I just had my grandma go with me to the appointment because I was so stressed about what it was gonna be. And so she confirmed that it was PCOS, and we talked about how there's like three or four bits of criteria to be diagnosed with PCOS. Let's see, you have to have irregular or absent periods, high levels of androgen, and polycystic ovaries on an ultrasound, or a high hormone level of like you know, indications of a high level of testosterone. And so you have to have two or three. So you either have to have high high androgen and testosterone, or missing period, and missing periods, or you know, polycystic ovaries, like out of those three, you have to have two of them to indicate UFP COS. I have all three. Yeah, so I could grow a very nice little mustache and beard if I wanted to. I was very kindly put out by my brother one day when I was in middle school. I don't know, siblings tease, and I think we were at dinner, and he was like, Kylie's got a mustache. I was like, you know, like poor little middle school Kylie, yeah.

unknown 34:36

I know.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

He didn't he didn't mean to make fun of me. Well, he meant to make fun of me, but he didn't mean to hurt me. He was just pointing out what he thought was funny. But then also I have the polycystic ovaries that they saw, and I have a history of bad periods. So she was like, You meet all the all the criteria, yay! Yay. I was like, oh great, thank you. So yeah, so it just from the diagnosis, things just have kind of continued to slide down.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Aww.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

And yeah, it does get really frustrating sometimes that, like, despite how hard I work to manage things and to get better, that it doesn't necessarily feel like it's helping or productive, but I've also just kind of come to accept that this is where I'm at and this is what life looks like. And I try hard not, I mean, you you can't help yourself sometimes but focus on the negative. But I try really hard to just like focus on good things that are happening, evidence that I'm getting where I want to be. The latest evidence is that even though the scale at the doctor showed the same number, my husband can see proof of weight loss, and I am down a pant size.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

That's yeah, so I can still wear the bigger pant size, but it's like evidently loose.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

And I can comfortably wear a smaller size that before felt a little bit tight. So I just try to focus on like those things and try not to like focus on it too much. And for me, it's always been I just want to name, I just want to know what I'm up against. I want to know what it is, and then we can figure it out from there, even if there is no answer, even if it is a thing that's forever, at least I know.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

And I'm not wondering about what's going on or why is this happening to me. You know? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Yeah, that makes total sense. I think a label for a lot of people, it's because if you don't know, it's scary, because then you're just kind of in the guessing game, you know?

SPEAKER_00 36:53

It's like, oh my gosh, do I have you don't know what to do about it, you don't know how to fix it?

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Yep, yep, that's true too.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

And so you're just like living with this thing that you can't answer.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Yep, absolutely. So, how has being chronically fill chronically ill affected your time as a pastor?

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah, so

Pastoring With Illness And Accessibility

SPEAKER_00 37:22

I I don't know, it um I've just kind of been in this since I got diagnosed and got diagnosed in the beginning stages. Yeah, so I don't really know what it would have been like otherwise. I do know that like I often am wishing that I could I had more energy than I did, that I could get more things done in a day, that I could work longer hours without feeling tired, that I could, you know, think more clearly sometimes when I've got things to do. But I think that it has helped in other ways. So it's helped me to like think about, because at some point in our lives, every one of us is gonna be disabled. At some point in our lives, our bodies are gonna break down and we're gonna have something that we can't do that we used to be able to do. Some of us will go mostly blind, some of us will go mostly deaf, we'll lose mobility, some of us may lose cognitive functions. Um and so I think that on in one sense, it has helped me to be able to think about that. So, like to be able to think about oh, hey, our you know, little Miss Lady should not be doing this, she should be having some help. Or, you know, hey, Mr. So-and-so is struggling with that. We really need to like take it seriously. And it's helped me to think more about like accessibility and you know, what should we do for this or for that? We have an event coming up that would be great if I could utilize our basement because we'd have more space for it, but I don't want to because I want everybody to be able to access it and we don't have an elevator, we have stairs and we have a currently broken chair lift that was otherwise very slow. Like we need to focus on that, we need to think about that, we need to think about how people are gonna be able to join in when I have a really great lady at the church that handles a lot of the food when we have potlucks, and she always tries to make sure that there's something I can eat without dairy. God bless her.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

That's so, so sauce.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

I'll give most people the full list, but no dairy is the big one. And she just like always checks in with me. She checked in with me earlier this week to see if I could eat honey. Just because, and I was like, Yeah, I can have honey, we're good. Um, but it helps me think about that. Like, if we, you know, do any of the kids have allergies? If I'm providing a snack for the kids, is it something that everyone can have? Do we have options? You know, if we were to get a kid who had a food allergy, because we don't have one right now, how could I work about that? If we were to get a kid who had a learning disability or a physical disability, what could I do to care for that? How could I take, you know, how could I think through that? And so it's made me really more sensitive to the needs that people might have that they might not even want to share. You know, we have people in our church that don't really want to ask for help. There's always those people that want to be independent as long as they can be, or you know, don't want to admit that they need help to, you know, open the door or you know, get this thing in and out of their car. And so I'm always looking and always like trying to find someone to be like, hey, can you go help them? But doing it quietly so they don't feel like I, you know, somebody's orchestrating assistance. Yeah. That it was just a good-natured person asking if they can help.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

So yeah, I think that it's just and it weirdly, it has made me, I think, better at my job.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

So that's a cool way to look at that, Kylie.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yeah, when I was first preaching, I would spend weeks on a sermon and I would practice it and like until the day before. I'm a theater kid, so I was like, I gotta memorize this

Letting God Lead When You Cannot

SPEAKER_00 42:06

script, I gotta do this thing. And there came a week where I couldn't do that whole process for whatever reason. I had still had, I've never preached every week, so I still had plenty of time to write the sermon, but I was just super busy, and so I couldn't practice every day leading up to the sermon. I only practiced about one or two times. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. This is gonna suck. Like, I don't even know how I'm gonna remember my transitions. Like, I have notes, but like, what am I, you know, I'm freaking out about it, and I'm just praying, and the time comes, and I just start doing what I'm doing, and I get done, and I'm like, man, I just hope that was I just hope that God took over because like there was no way that I could have done that well. And so many people came up to me and were like, that was fantastic, that was so good. And so that plus just like my general lack of ability at times, has really just made me lean more on God and made me be like, okay, when I don't feel like I can do something, I'm just gonna trust that it's God doing it, and then it's gonna be great. Because if I try to force it, it's gonna suck. But if I just step back and I say, okay, God, this you see the effort that I have, you see what I had to give, you go ahead and take it from here. It always works out so much better than than when I try to like micromanage every little thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Yeah. That's really beautiful. You feel like he kind of works through you in those moments.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Oh, absolutely. I mean, if we look at like look at all of the greats of the Bible, Moses had something going on. He was constantly telling God that he didn't know how to talk. Moses had something going on. David had David's problems. You know, look at all the prophets who had to do the weirdest things for God. Ezekiel had to like pretend lay siege to a town and eat bread cooked over cow poop. And Paul constantly talks about the thorn in his flesh. And in our weaknesses, God's strength is displayed, not because it's like, look at me and what I did, despite the fact that my body hurts. It's like, look at how God pulled me through. And in our weakness, when we take a step back and we're like, okay, God, I don't know how I'm going to do this. Last night we had our kids' church and I was like driving in. I was like, I'm so tired. I don't want to be here. I want to go to bed. I don't want to do this thing. Like, we're only going to have two of our four kids. I just don't even know God. And our kids showed up late, but that let me have like a really nice time with my volunteer who needed to vent and get something off her chest that she didn't even realize until she was done talking about it and apologized. I'm like, girl, no. Like, tell me what's going on. And I was able to like, she had this great idea that I hadn't thought about. And so I was able to like let her take it and go with it. And we got down to the end of the night and we were done before the adults, which was very weird. And so we just had some time to kill. And there was an extra game in the lesson that I wasn't sure the kids would like. That she was like, they were asking me for a game. And I was like, I don't know what we can do with like any minute now, your dad could come downstairs. And she was like, Well, let's just try this game that they had. And it was great. And they loved it. And I was able to just like sit back and let it happen. But if I had come in and tried to be like, this is how we're going to do it, this is why we're going to do it that way, because I said so, and whatever, I don't, it wouldn't have been as fun for the kids. We wouldn't have had such a good time. I wouldn't have left feeling like that was a successful evening. And so when I step out of the way, and I just go, This is all I've got. You take it from here. I mean, we have so many stories of that happening in scripture. The widows might and the five loaves and the two fish. And, you know, Mary and Martha. And all of these times where people have brought everything they have to the Lord and like, this is it. This is all I've got. I've got nothing else. I'm so sorry. He's like, no, that's perfect. That's all I need. Like, it's okay. I got this. You know, faith is small as a mustard seed. Everything we've got, he's going to make it great. Not for us, not because of us, but because of him and because we did what he asked us to do and brought him what we have. And so when I have weeks where it's like, this is all I've got, this is all I have to give. I just like rest on the fact that, like, it's going to be okay. He's going to make it great. If I have to preach and I'm feeling woefully underprepared, I'm like, perfect. God's got this. He's going to do something great. And I just got to get up there and open my mouth, and he'll make the words come out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

And it really just has strength. I know a lot of people encounter these life-changing diagnoses or these like really hard moments. And there has been a fair share of having strong words with God in the car. I always, I always just leave it feeling like it was a vent session, unless like that was how I genuinely feel. It's more like, okay, God, thank you for letting me just like deh. You're right. You've got this. I trust you. Let's see what happens. And it really just has led me into a deeper place of trusting in him with absolutely everything. And sometimes included in that absolutely everything is asking him why and crying and turning worship songs into songs about how tired I am. And you know, just like whatever silly little thing it is, I just try and like, okay, this is included in what I've got to give you this week. And I know you're gonna, you're gonna use it and you're gonna do something with it. Even if I don't see it now, even if I don't see it for a few years, even if I never see it, something good is gonna come out of this, and you're gonna make it happen, and I'm just gonna like sit back and be satisfied knowing I've given you everything I've got today.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

Yeah. And he'll use that.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

And he does.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

What do you think is a Bible verse or story that specifically has helped you get through flare-ups and exhaustion?

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Yeah, okay. So I'm gonna grab my Bible to read more than just the verse I have memorized. Oh there's this passage in 2 Peter that I heard in a sermon when I was like in elementary school, and for some reason it stuck with me, and I memorized it, and my dad and I talked about it a lot. It's also one of my dad's favorite Bible passages, and it just really is helpful. So it's so the verse that I absolutely love is 2 Peter 1.3, and then verse 4. I mean, the the whole rest of it continues it. But 2 Peter 1.3 says, His divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. And then verse 4 by these he has given us very great and precious promises, so that through them you may share in the divine nature, escaping the corruption that is in the world because of evil desires. And so it's just that that reminder that like everything I need to do anything he asks me to do is sit in there. I just gotta use it, and I just gotta ask for it, and I just gotta open the box. It's like having a storeroom full of every supply you could ever need in the entire however many years you live, and all you're gonna do is walk in and find it, and you know, look at it and use it, and that it's because we know him and because we're called by him that he gives us everything we need so that we can share in his divine nature, so that we can be like him and share in who he is and not have to live in the corruption of the world here and in eternity. That he wants us to use what he's given us, he wants us to ask him for the things we need, he wants us to cling to the promises he's given us because he wants us to be like him and to be like our first parents were in the garden. He wants us to experience all of the wonderful things of life and all of the goodness and all of the loveliness that we can. He doesn't want us to live in the suffering, and so he gives us all everything we need. All we have to do is ask him for it. And it's just been very helpful when I don't feel like I have anything to be like, he has given me everything I need. And if that means that today, what that looks like is taking a nap, that's what it looks like. If that means today it looks like pushing through because tomorrow I don't have to do anything, that's what it looks like. Like whatever it looks like to make it through today, he's given me what I need to make it through today. And so even though we pray, God give us strength, give us wisdom, give us, give us, you know, whatever we it is that we feel like we're lacking in. Yes, he tells us to ask for things. If you ask for wisdom, he'll make you wise, but it's because it's already ready, it's already sitting there. It's like a present under the Christmas tree, it's already there. And so when we ask him for it, he's like, Of course, it's right here, take it. And that he's not withholding what I need, that it's it's here and it's ready, and he wants to give it to me.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Yeah, how do you reconcile like that truth and that belief with like, you know, a lot of people would use a similar sort of reasoning to kind of preach prosperity gospel or

Everything You Need Not Everything You Want

SPEAKER_03 53:34

preach, well, if you just ask for it, you'll be healed. How do you reconcile that he gives you all that you need to live a life of godliness and holiness, but also you have a chronic illness that he's not healing? What has that been like reconciling those things?

SPEAKER_00 53:49

He gives me everything I need, not everything I want. I don't need to be healed. I'm okay. I can I can survive what I need. He says that he's not gonna give us a temptation without providing a way to make it through. And so if he's gonna make sure that I can make it through anything this world is gonna throw at me, then I just gotta remember that I'm gonna make it through. James tells us in your verse, consider it pure joy whenever you face trials and tribulations, because the father is working. And so, like the first thing I remember is that this is not how it was supposed to be. This is not how the world was supposed to be, this is not how our lives were supposed to be. We were supposed to be living in 24-7 connection with him in a perfect world free from sin, and that because of sin, we don't. And so, because of sin, our bodies break down, because of sin, we encounter these hard things, because of sin and corruption, all of these things happen, and that that's not what God planned, that's not his desire, that's not what he wants for us, but again, in those weaknesses, he is our strength. If I never had chronic pain, I wouldn't lean on him to get me through the day in the same way. If I didn't have mental fog at points, I wouldn't take a step back and go, okay, you gotta figure it out because I can't. If I was perfectly able to do everything, I know myself, I would just try to do everything on my own and in my own power. And that's not what needs to happen. That's what I would want to happen, but that's not what should happen. We need to rely on God's power for everything. And I think I see a lot of people who are able-bodied and able-minded who only really turn and rely on God when something bad happens. When somebody goes to the hospital, when you know a car crash happens, when bad things happen, they're like, Oh my gosh, God, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna make it? You gotta do it. It's like I've been doing that every day, man. Every day I have been like, okay, God, it's yours. You do it. You want it to happen, you make it happen. And I think that it's just let me have a deeper relationship with him. So while I would love to wake up tomorrow and not be in pain, the the pain is a reminder of God's grace, a reminder that God's got me and He's gonna make it through. I think about it like fasting. So, fasting, for those who may not know, is when you choose to give something up, usually food, for a certain period of time in order to pray to God for a specific purpose. So, like Daniel in the Bible, you hear a lot about the Daniel fast and like health fats. Daniel gave up everything but fruits and vegetables and water in order to pray to God for God's wisdom and direction. Daniel didn't have a set time, but like Esther asked the people of Israel to pray for her for three days, to fast for three days, and she and her people fasted before she went before the king to save the whole nation so they could fight back. And so I kind of think of it like that. When you're fasting, the pain of hunger reminds you of why you're praying. The Holy Spirit's like, hey, you don't need food, you need to pray. And so I think about it like that. When my knees hurt, when my back hurts, when I can't do something that I want to do, or I can't do it easily, or I need help to do it, it reminds me that I cannot do anything without God. It reminds me that I cannot work my way into heaven, I cannot work my way and earn a good relationship with him, that it's all because of his grace, and that if God can get me through the pain of my knee today, God can get me through anything. Anything that life is gonna throw at me, any hard thing that's gonna happen, any really rough time where I don't know what's going on, God's gonna get me through it because today He got me through this symptom.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

Yeah, I've got another question for you, uh Kylie.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

So do you think I'm wondering for our terminally ill brothers and sisters that are listening, I think that you know, hearing that can be maybe a little tricky as well. Like I think it's very encouraging if you think you said beautiful things,

Hope For Terminal Illness And Today

SPEAKER_03 59:02

but I think it's also hard because it's like, you know, like I've obviously all of us, like you said, someday we'll all be chronically ill. Well, that's what aging is. Someday all of us will be terminally ill. You know, we've got brothers and sisters listening who maybe have terminal cancer and are looking at a few days to two a few months to live. What is what do you think, like, how do you think that verse of God supplying all that we need applies to our terminally ill, brothers and sisters?

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Yeah. I think the big thing to remember there is again that that wasn't the plan and that it sucks, and it's okay that it sucks, and it's okay that there are a million different things that we wish could happen or we want to happen, and it's okay to be jealous and upset when somebody else is cured and you're not, somebody else is healed and you're not, but that God, even in the hard, sucky, awful parts, has something specific for you, has something specific that he wants for you, and that even in terminal illness, you your life can still glorify him, and your life can still live on in the way that you treat those around you, and so if you're bedridden at home, you can still be a light of God's love to those in your home. If you're in a hospital, you can still be a light of God's love in the hospital, and that again, in our biggest weaknesses, God is strongest, and God's testimony through your life is it's not any more powerful than anybody else, but the immediate impact is often more seen in those really intense situations, in those really hard situations of like, what are we gonna do? I you know, I don't know, and I don't have a perfect answer. I'm not God, I don't know why He lets some people experience it and other people not, why he cures some people and not other people. Yeah, but I think that we can all still cling to the hope that comes in the knowledge that everything we need for today is taken care of. God's got it. Everything we need for today, he's gonna make it happen. And then I think to the Sermon on the Mount where Christ says, Don't worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow's gonna worry about itself. Don't, you know, the the flowers in the field don't worry about the weather, the birds don't worry about where the best seeds are, they just live, and God takes care of them, and their lives are so much shorter than our lives, and their experiences are so much smaller than our experiences, and God cares about them enough to make sure that the meadow in the middle of the forest here in Alaska that no one is probably ever gonna see is decorated with pretty flowers because it delights him, and so when when we're in that space, and again, I can't speak to it, I'm not there, but I hope that that the knowledge that God decorates the most remote metal with pretty flowers and gives you everything you need for today can bring some form of comfort, and that's even something God calls himself. He calls ourselves our comforter, he's there even when we're mad at him, and even when we don't understand, and even when it feels like it's pointless and hopeless, he's right there, not to tell us we're wrong, but to sit with us in it. Like, I know my child, I know I'm here.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hey, if you're listening and you're terminally ill and you have any questions or thought about uh thoughts about that, let us know. And genuinely, like if you're like I want to speak on that, hey, you're welcome to speak on the podcast too.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

But seriously, like all experiences and un and ways of processing are valid and important to learn from. And you know, it's important to hear from you.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:51

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for answering those tricky questions. I know those were difficult, but now uh you're you know, I feel like you pastorally answered questions as is your job. I would like to know and serve you in a way by giving voice to you know what you experience. How do you think being what what do you what do you think are some of the unique difficulties as well as some of the unique blessings? And you maybe you've kind of already touched upon this, but of being a pastor with a

Blessings Challenges And Supporting Pastors

SPEAKER_03 1:04:23

chronic illness.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

Yeah. So to recap the unique blessings, it's that I get I get to really live out what I preach. I get to really live in the city. You don't really have a choice and really go through it, and I hope that the way that I handle it and do it just provides a really good example for people, and that I get the opportunity to let myself be loved on by people, and also I get the blessing of not being able to be a workaholic because I can't. Some of the unique challenges, I think, and and they kind of generally apply to all pastors, but also specifically, and I'm gonna say this really loud for the people in the back. Pastors are people, we're human beings with like thoughts and feelings and emotions, and good days and bad days, and families at home, and hobbies, and like every single thing you go through in life, we also are there with you. If the church is not doing well and it's on your heart, man, it's on our heart because this is our job. Like, if you're struggling financially, we're probably struggling financially, we get paid by what you give to the church, and that's not to like demean anyone, but I think that often people forget. Or don't act like people or like pastors or people like people have called my dad for like the strangest things at the weirdest times and just like expected him to be available and there and like capable. And there was like kind of a running morbid joke in our family that we couldn't go a holiday season without someone in the church dying. And like that's obviously more sad for the people's family who had someone pass, but also like every holiday season for a while. Like, so you know, when you come to church and you're exhausted and you need a fresh infilling of the spirit, and we're the ones providing that for you, we are probably also exhausted and would also like a fresh infilling of the spirit, and would also like to just come and sit and be served. And that's not what happens for us on a regular basis. And so for me specifically, someone in my church said, I think it was like five months into me being here, they were like, Pastor Kylie, I am so blessed by your energy and excitement. And you're just like boundless energy and capabilities. And I went home and I laughed. Like I called my husband and I laughed on the way home because then I went home and put on the comfiest clothes I had and sat on the couch for four hours and didn't move because I hurt. Like, like, just because we look like we've got it all together does not mean we do. And just because I look like I have boundless energy and my chronic illnesses are not that bad, you don't know what happens when I go home. You don't know what I face and how I manage symptoms at home. You know, and that's true of every pastor. You don't know what happens in their home, you don't know what's going on behind closed doors.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:06

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

And so even though I on Sunday we have our like Thanksgiving dinner after church, and I have a whole kids' table, and during the service, I'm gonna do a craft with the kids after the service, and after they're done eating, I'm gonna entertain them, and then we're gonna decorate the whole church for Christmas, and I'm probably gonna help bring boxes up from the basement. And I'm gonna be like happy and chipper and energetic and having a great time, and then I'm gonna go home and like crash. My husband's gonna make dinner. Like, and I say it in a funny way because humor helps, but like seriously, your pastor has a bad day. Your pastor needs encouragement, your pastor needs to be given grace. We're not perfect people, we experience lots of things, and especially the pastors out there who are older, who are, you know, grandparents, you know, they're probably having some body stuff. They're probably struggling with pain or health problems. And just a little, you know, pick me up and like, hey, we recognize it. And I know that like October is like national pastor appreciation month or whatever. Don't don't shorten it. Don't only appreciate your pastor in October or at Christmas or at their birthday. Like, I have pinned up on my wall a little note that someone sent me in October, but she had like just started coming to the church last October, and she sent me this little note, and I have it pinned up on my wall. I have a whole drawer full of cards that people have given me to say thank you at random times. Like the the unique challenges of having the chronic illness come in with kind of just what everyone with chronic illness experiences. But then, like, I don't I don't want to, you know, have to take multiple days to recover from something. I don't want to be like like dreading activities that I have to go to because it's gonna take more energy than I have today. You know, I go to teen camp and it's a week long, and next year we also have a 10-day or a seven-day teen conference in Utah, and I am not looking forward to that symptom-wise. I'm looking forward to it mentally, but I'm not looking forward to it physically, and that's just like you know, the the way things are, and so just a reminder of like if you're serving with a pastor who is older or has a chronic illness, just send up some extra prayers, make sure you got ibuprofen on you, you know, figure out your favorite snack or something and and offer it to them because it really is like so meaningful to get those little thank yous from people, but then also for them to acknowledge, like I said with the lady who acknowledges my food needs, it's I just feel so loved every time she asks me. And it's like very small, and she doesn't ask me often, but every time we talk about it, it's just like oh, these people love me, they care about me, and they care about the things about me that are difficult and harder and different than other people. They're watching out for me and and my symptoms, and they're taking care of me in a way that you know other churches might not, or other people might not. So, yeah, if you know a pastor with chronic illness, figure out a way to just like every now and then, not often, but like I don't know, it's probably like once a quarter that we have like a big churchwide meal. Every now and then, just hey, thinking about you, you know, if you know that they get really cold and their office is in a cold part of the building, you know, drop off a pair of gloves or a blanket, you know, if if they're really tired all the time, figure out their favorite way to stay awake and give it to them, you know, just those little tiny things that might take you 10 minutes, I promise you mean so much. And I know that every chronic illness person could say that, right? Like when someone sees you and like offers to buy you dinner because they know you can't cook, like if you have if if I say this because one of my best friends is also chronically ill, like something if I think of something that I'm like, man, it would be so nice if somebody would do this for me. I try to think of a way I could do that for her because I know that she and I go through a similar experience, and the same is true about your pastors, and it's just kind of double because your pastors get it because they're pastors and it's your job, and so people don't think about it often. And then if you're a pastor with chronic illness, it's also on the other side where it's like I try really hard to mask my symptoms so that no one knows, and so that if I tell them, they're like, Wow, I never would have known, and they don't see the impacts of that, and so from all the sides, just even sending a text, some seriously, it can be like the tiniest, most free thing in the world, but it's gonna mean so much to us. I I'm gonna keep these cards forever, and I have, they've lived in every church office desk I have had and ever will have. And you know, some of these people probably don't even remember writing me the note, but I've got it because that's what I need.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:30

Yeah, those are really great suggestions. I love that. I love the intentionality of like if someone, you know, particularly we're talking about pastors. I love that you said, like, if they're elderly or if you know that they have an illness, like just the intentionality of watching. Like, what do they like to drink? What do they like to eat? When do they seem to like burn out, you know, and and start to kind of slump a little, like sending them texts, small things, like I love those practical pieces of advice to help serve. And I I think that's really important. So thanks for sharing those tips. Yeah. All right, so my last question for you if you could say anything to Christians with chronic illnesses, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:17

Even when it doesn't feel like it, God still got you.

Final Encouragement And How To Connect

SPEAKER_03 1:15:21

Even when it doesn't feel like it, God still got you. That's very that made me smile. Thanks for that. Yeah, of course. Well, Kylie, thank you so much for taking this time. Yeah. I really, really appreciate it. And I find your story very encouraging. Thanks for wrestling through hard questions and thanks for serving the church even when you're tired.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:45

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:47

Yeah, I think that God sees you even when you're exhausted. And like you said, I think he's there with you. He he relates.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:58

Oh, well, thanks so much seriously for taking the time out of your day. Genuinely really appreciate it. Yeah, of course. And I hope it was refreshing for you to talk about these things. I'm sure it was also tiring as well, but you got any emails.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

If anyone's in Alaska and wants to wants to come say hi, I'm at Chapel of the Cross Church of the Nazarene in Anchorage.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

Thank you so much for being a part of the Christians with Chronic Illnesses community. Please remember to follow Rate and subscribe to the show. You can also follow us on our socials at CWCI Podcast. And if you're interested in sharing your story, please email us at cwcipodcast at gmail.com. If you are interested in contributing to the production of Christians with chronic illnesses, please see the show notes below for subscriptions starting as low as $1 a month, or email us for a more direct way to give. This show is hosted and produced by Ellie Spreg, and our incredible logo, thumbnail, and overall CWCI artist is Brianna Middleton. This show is intended for entertainment and encouragement purposes only. Please talk to your doctor before trying anything you hear on this show. Until next Monday.