Lupus and God's Global Purpose with "Lucy"

A candid journey from lupus diagnosis to a resilient yes for God’s global mission, weaving art, identity, and mobilization into a grounded path forward. We share five concrete ways to engage the nations even with chronic illness, and why weakness can sharpen calling.

• lupus diagnosis reshaping life and dreams
• identity shift from artist to mobilizer
• Urbana and putting a yes on the table
• what mobilization is and why it matters
• day‑to‑day mobilizer work and the pipeline
• severe flare, recovery, and stewardship of health
• matching calling with climate and medical access
• five ways to engage: pray, send, welcome, go, mobilize
• how churches can send with holistic care
• welcoming unreached neighbors like Somali communities
• scripture‑based view of calling and encouragement

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

L. A. 0:00

I'm your Jesus loving and pote host, Elise Frank. Welcome to Christians with Chronic Illnesses.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Okay, Lizzie, I'm thrilled to have you. Like I said, I'm literally so excited.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

I've been really thrilled to have you as a part of this particular podcast because you share a lot of like similar things with me, like passions for Jesus and his heart for the nations, and then also like having chronic illnesses and then balancing like what it looks like to live with that. So anyway, thanks so much for being on. I'm really thrilled for what this conversation might have.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Uh you are so welcome. I'm I'm just thrilled that you reached out to me with this project. It's I'm really excited for what God's gonna do with this project. Oh thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Dude, me too.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, I was praying for this episode before we started recording. I was just praying. I I know God's gonna use this in in really cool ways.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Yeah, I pray so. Okay, well, why don't you talk about, you know, like who you are, Lucy, as a person, and maybe about your relationship with Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, so as a friend of mine often says, my Clark Penn quotes job would be arts. I'm a visual artist, that's what I want for school for. But strangely, is not actually what I would say I do. What I do do, even though like I don't really, so I mean I don't make money with art either. I don't really make money with this either, but I am um missions mobilizer, and it is worth like all of the time. And I know I feel like uh the like Gen Z is always like very concerned with like yeah, like how do you support yourself? How do you make money? But I just have found so much fulfillment in just being a part of God's global purposes through mobilization, even in spite of you know the the hard things that come with it and the fact that you know people don't really want to pay you to do that oftentimes. But that is also like our my husband and I, our main income also does still come from mobilization, even though it's yeah, it's it has its own unique challenges, but we love it, we love it so much. So yeah, that's I guess the basics, an artist, a mobilizer. So cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

What the heck?

Artist Identity And Missions Mobilization

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Like who gets to say that they're an artist in a missions mobilizer? It's so unique. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I do love being able to say that, you know, it's there's something that's just like it's really fun when people ask.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

I'm like, wow, let me let me know.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

It's it's so I've I've enjoyed it. And we are during this transition period that we're going through right now, preparing to step away from mobilization and move towards cross-cultural field work overseas. So that's been interesting as well. As yeah, we we have really enjoyed the official sort of mobilization role, but I feel like it's something that we're never gonna really leave behind because really the heart of it is hey, I'm doing something. God's doing something. Would you come along with me? Um, and I just love giving that invite to people, I guess. So, but we are transitioning to hopefully being on the field in the next couple of years. Um and that'll be its own new adventure as well. But yeah, yeah. So I I don't know. I did want to talk a little bit about like how I ended up here. Yeah, I would love to hear it. And I know we had talked about that some before.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah, how did you end up where you are? Sorry, what? I said I said, how did you end up where you are?

SPEAKER_04 4:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah. So I yeah, like I said, I went to school for uh studio arts with an emphasis in textiles and ceramics. So and for a long time, well, okay, actually, no, subscribe to that. I need to go further back because what is this podcast about? It is about Christians with chronic illness. And so I feel like the very first step in my call to missions was actually my diagnosis. What? Maybe not the very first step. Okay, but I in high school I had this sort of heart of like escapism of I hated school, even though I was homeschooled. I hated it. I didn't want to participate in the world. I really wanted to just escape and I was gonna live in the woods and search for my food. And you sound like my fiance. Yeah, you know, just I feel like a lot of Christians have this sort of Christian escapism, you know? Where it's like, oh, like we're gonna, you know, getting back to our roots and and all of that, but really we kind of decide that we want to hide away from the world. And that's really what I wanted to do. I wanted to, you know, just live in the wild and you know, not participate in in the world, in, you know, in communities at all. And that was just like my dream. I was like, I don't want to go to college, I don't want to have a job I do in the woods.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

I just want to live in the woods.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

And yeah, that was very abruptly put

Lupus Diagnosis And Shattered Plans

SPEAKER_00 6:20

to an end. Yeah. What'd you diagnose? It was very abruptly put to an end when I was 17. And I was diagnosed with lupus after going on a road trip with my uncle. I had really bad rashes on my face that we didn't know what they were for a while. And my doctor at first was like, Oh, it's a staph infection, and gave me two weeks of antibiotics, but that didn't make it go away. And then she was like, That's weird. Let's go see a dermatologist. And the dermatologist tested for lupus and it came back positive. And honestly, wow, I am amazed I got such a quick diagnosis because so many lupus cases you wait years not knowing what it is. But I had a very textbook case with the rash on my face and very sensitive to sunlight. Um so wow, yeah, that was a very life-changing moment for a 17-year-old to suddenly be told do not go outside, do not be in the sun, wear sunscreen all the time, wear long sleeves, wear hats. I didn't like wearing hats before then. So there was a lot of like, oh, like all of my, you know, oh, I'm gonna just live outside and be natural. And like there was suddenly this realization of like, that's not really possible, is it?

L. A. 7:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Um I'm not gonna be able to live without medication. I'm not gonna be able to, you know, go, you know, outside and without heavy preparation first, at least. And so yeah, that really was like, okay, like I need to sort of wake up to a reality of, you know, the world that we live in is the the world that we live in is not the way it's supposed to be. And that's something that has like hit me hard over the last few years. Like, there's so many things that are not the way it's supposed to be, and one of those things is autoimmune illness, like not the way the world's supposed to be. And so, how do we live in this world of not the way it's supposed to be in anticipation of the way it's supposed to be is coming. Um understanding what could have been, but also understanding what is coming.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

And so, yeah, that was oh my goodness, for a like teenager who loved being outside and wanted to like forage for food for a living, like that was like just so devastating. Um but I because of that, I was like, okay, I'm graduating high school, and my mom convinced me to go to college, even though I wanted to not to go for art because all my life people had told me that I was a good artist and that I was so good at making beautiful things, and so I was like, okay, so this must be my calling. I must be called to make beautiful things and just beautify the world. Oh. Um, and you know, I had grown up in a church where I heard stories about, you know, missionaries in the past, some missionaries in the present. And I was always really fascinated by those and thought that was really cool. But also feeling so cool. That's that's someone else. That happened a long time ago. That is not something I could do, especially not with my illness, especially not with the set of skills God has given me. This idea that, like, oh, like I gotta be a teacher or a doctor or you know, a pilot. Actually, at one point I did consider getting my pilot's license because I was like, oh, I'm gonna be a missionary pilot. And this was after you had lupus or before?

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Or after you're diagnosed?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Wow, okay, all right. Yeah, I was like, oh, I'll be a I'll be a pilot. And then I realized missionary pilots also have to be mechanics. Because if your plane goes down in the desert, you gotta be able to fix it yourself. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

But yeah, so you weren't you weren't interested in the mechanics lifestyle. No.

unknown 10:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

I always felt like I was not good with mechanical things or technology things, you know?

SPEAKER_04 10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

But yeah, so I was like, art, art's the only thing I can do. So I had all of these sorts of like dreams of like, oh, that's cool, but not something I can actually do. That was the same sort of dream as, you know, living in the forest and foraging for my food.

unknown 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Where it's like, that's cool, but I can't actually do that. And so I kind of went to college with that sort of thought. And I enjoyed a lot of my art classes in 2017. I transferred from MATC in Madison to UW Green Bay, where I met my husband through university, and we just really enjoyed doing like campus ministry together and stuff. But like, yeah, we were in university together, and I remember then in the fall of 2018, I submitted art to a student-reed exhibition um that I was really excited before. I I had never before done anything like this, but none of my art got selected for the show. And that was strangely a turning point for me. And I had realized I was coming up on graduation, and what on earth am I gonna do after graduation? And the future was this big black hole sucking me in. I turned in my art for this jury show, and it got turned away, and

Wrestling With Calling At Urbana

SPEAKER_00 12:25

I was just like, God, is this not what I'm supposed to do? Am I not good enough to do this? Like, what am I supposed to do? And uh my husband, who at the time was just a friend, had invited me to the Urbana Student Missions Conference, which if the listeners don't know what that is, it is the largest student missions conference in the world. I highly recommend it. So cool. And it is happening this December again. December of 2025. Yes. All right. Where is it at? Do you know? It's in Phoenix, Arizona. Oh, so you can go on online and search for Urbana. And I mean, Arizona in December, that sounds pretty nice.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Yeah.

unknown 13:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

I've been to Arizona mostly in the summer. It's really hot. I bet in December it's really nice. Yeah, that sounds awesome. Okay, so he took you to Urbana. Sorry, what?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

So he took you to Urbana.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, so we went to Urbana as friends with a friend group. We had other friends that went along. And I remember telling God, I was like, okay, God, like I don't know what my life is gonna be. Just can you just lay out the plan? Where I'm gonna go to Urbana, I'm gonna check it out, I'm gonna see. You know, I still had that, you know, missionary pilot. I thought in the back of my head, I was like, okay, God, like maybe there's something out there. And I had this feeling like there's something bigger out there for me. And I was like, okay, let's just go and see what it is. And so I went to Urbana, Urbana 18, had an amazing time, and uh had a hard time too, if I'm being entirely honest. I really struggled with my identity there, like really because I found that my identity had been really wrapped up in in art and in just other things that I had latched on to. A little bit of my my illness in there too, in my art, in yeah, just who I had decided I was and the limits I put on myself. And so I remember going into the exhibition hall, which was where they had all of the different orgs that were looking to recruit and promote their program and stuff, and just getting this sort of like phobia stage fright feeling. There's there's a lot of people, there's so many orgs here. There's maybe a better word for it would be actually this imposter syndrome, actually, where it was like, Oh, I'm here, and all of these people at the tables are trying to recruit me and talk to me, but I'm not the person they're looking for. They're looking for a missionary, and that's not who I am. And I really struggled with that, and there was like a lot of tears during that week, and a lot of late night talks, and just working through that of like the identity of like, oh, like I'm an artist, I'm not a missionary, and that really was a huge block for me. And yeah, so through that though, we got to the last the last night, and the speaker that night was talking about her own struggles when she was feeling called and feeling like she was not equipped, not the right person for the job, and I just resonated with that so much. And even without like I had asked God to put everything on the table, be like, hey, what's like, can you show me the plan? What's the roadmap? Yeah, I did not get that out of conference.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Um because I'm not I'm not surprised. Yeah, I was gonna say, like, I would I would have been shocked if he had done that.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

But I did leave with my yes on the table, as they say. And not knowing what that really looked like, I was like, I got I say yes to being a part of your global purposes, and I wasn't really sure what that looked like at that moment, but I was so excited because suddenly the world was just open again. Like there were the opportunities were endless again.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

It's like you had been limiting yourself for some time, maybe a few years, as like I'm gonna be an artist, but you had developed this heart for missions, and so then this conference somehow opened your eyes that okay, maybe there could be a place for me still.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yeah, and there was like this sort of relief of like, oh, like it's okay for me to, you know, want this, you know, to want to be a part of this and and take steps towards it instead of it just being a far-off, like, oh maybe. Yeah, and so after that, that's when my husband and I we decided we were gonna start dating because we felt like our lives were going in the same direction and we went to the city. So cute! We wanted to do missions together, and that literally was like the basis of our relationship. We wanted to do missions together, and we were married then in 2019.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

And wait, so what's the what's

Saying Yes Without A Roadmap

SPEAKER_02 18:10

the time frame? When did you go to Urbana?

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, so end of December 2018.

unknown 18:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Okay, and then I was already crushing pretty hard. Okay. And then we started dating two weeks later in the middle of January. Aw. And then right around Valentine's Day of 2019, we were like, hey, let's get married. Um, and I think it freaked our parents out a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Um but then our wedding was in August of 2019. Wow, oh my goodness. We're coming up on our yeah, our sixth year anniversary now. Oh, awesome. So yeah, I every time I think back to this time in my life, I am just so overwhelmed with gratitude just for the things that God has given me. And and yeah, just yeah, this very like I things I thought I couldn't have, you know, he's given to me. And yeah, that's just been so so special. And so I guess from that, like I really developed a heart for mobilization. And we've worked with our org that that we're going with, and we've also worked with perspectives, which is another thing to the listeners. I highly recommend perspectives if you ever get a chance to do a class in your area, and you're like, Oh, I don't know if I can be a part of God's global plan. Perspectives is a great place to go and just learn about it, yeah, and care about opportunities and be inspired. And we've enjoyed yeah, volunteering with them a lot. Yeah, so it's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

So okay, so what does it mean that you kind of I think I think you use the wording something like fell in love with mobilization? What is mobilization? You know, like I'm sure a lot of our audience is like, I have no idea what you're talking about. So maybe share what that even looks like. What do you do?

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah. So I guess that comes down to why are we here? Why why did God why did God establish a church on earth? Because he could just have been like, here, okay, you're you're saved, you're saved. Now I'm gonna swoop you up to heaven. But we're saved, but we're still here on earth with a purpose. And we are organized into the global church, as in like every believer on the face of the earth is a part of the body of Christ. So the global church is what I mean when I that's what I mean when I say the global church. And so what is our purpose as an individual? But what also is the purpose of the church being here on earth in this sort of in-between time where Jesus has come and changed the world, but also, you know, he also was hasn't come yet, too. And so we're in this in-between time. And what is the purpose of that? And what is the purpose of the church? And so mobilization is in the same sense of a military mobilization. The church has a purpose to uh take spiritual ground for the kingdom, and there's places in the world where the church either doesn't exist or has a very, very weak presence. And we can drive around most of our towns here in the US and see several churches that are maybe even just a couple blocks apart, sometimes across the street from each other, versus other parts of the world where you could go through city after city and not find a single church. And so in mobilization, I have these sort of joint joint purposes of like, wow, my experience in mobile being mobilized was so powerful

What Mobilization Really Means

SPEAKER_00 22:30

and such joy to discover that I had a role in all of this, and I want others to experience that too. But also in that the I feel the American church is in need of understanding the need in the world, the the lack of gospel in certain areas. And it's not that there's not things that need to happen here in the US, but that we have churches, we have bodies of believers here, and there's other places and cultures where there's no body of believers to be that light in their community. And so I really have a heart to also, besides the fulfillment that I feel like the individual believer can get from discovering that, hey, God has called you on picture, picture the classic Uncle Sam poster. I want you. Yeah. So that's that is God pointing at you. I want you to be a part of global purposes. And but in that also, there's this wake-up call of like, hey, like, there's people that are still waiting. They've never ever heard, they've never heard the gospel before, and there's no church there to tell them. And if we can encourage a church to sprout there, just imagine what would happen. And so I feel like a lot of churches, it's so easy to not really see past the end of your nose where it's like, this is what's right in front of me. We gotta work on this. And if we can open up their eyes to this global, like the whole church is a global team to reach this goal, the goal that we see in Revelation at the end of time, every nation, tribe, and tongue is worshiping around the throne. And right now, there's some nations and tongues that are not there yet. And but the super cool thing, sorry, I get so excited. No, that's it. We get to be part of that. Like, oh woo! That is like so cool. Like, yeah, praise you, Jesus. Like, we get to be a part of that. He couldn't do that without our help, yeah. But he's called us to be a part of that. Oh man, sorry, I get so that's beautiful, Lucy.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

I love that. That's absolutely beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

So I guess that is yeah, that's mobilization. And like, so kind of be like, oh, there's missions is just people going, but who's gonna call them to go? You know, that's the mobilizer.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

So what does that look like practically? Like as you are calling people, you know, to be aware that God is calling them to, you know, share his love with the nations. What does that look like for you practically? Like, you know, what do you do on a day-to-day basis as a missions mobilizer?

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah, so there's a few different aspects of that. Some are things like Urbana or Perspectives, where so we work with an organization that is trying to recruit people to their specific mission. And we would go and be like, hey, like, do you have a heart for this? Sign up with us and we can help get you to that faraway place. So sometimes we would go there and have a table and stuff. Sometimes, you know, just like with perspectives, we just coordinated a perspectives class because the learning aspect, I think, is a really big part of mobilization. Like, people don't know, they've not heard about these things. And yeah, just spreading the word of like, hey, like there's someone out there waiting, you know, in a city far away where there's no churches, they're waiting to hear from you what God's doing in your life and what God can do in their life. And so, yeah. And then the maybe more like day-to-day, like we then meet with people and help people with the struggles because, like, I'm not gonna lie, like, this can be hard. There is definitely

Day‑To‑Day Mobilizer Work

SPEAKER_00 27:05

gonna be pushback from the enemy. We've experienced pushback from the enemy from churches and um from individuals that are just you know, they I see this as such good news to be a part of God's global purposes like this, and some people don't see that as good news. Wow, and that has been made certain relationships and yeah, but yeah, the other the other side is just that like because we are mobilizing with an organization, we get to be kind of on the inside of that more organization and just be a part of the the movement towards the field. So there's sort of like what we call a pipeline, and that's not not even just within our org, that's kind of in general. A pipeline is just, you know, someone is goes from mobilizing to or mobilization, being mobilized to, oh yes, I am committing to do this with my life. I want to move towards the field, and how do we how do we move people along that and get them to where God's calling them to? So that's just also been a very cool thing being a part of a community that's you know like-minded and working together. And that, but yeah, I think the things that I have loved is just I do love just going to conferences and talking to people.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

And I do love doing a perspectives courses and coordinating that and inviting the instructors and talking with the students, and um, yeah, it's a very relational sort of job. In the same way that you would, you know, go and evangelize to someone who's not a believer. We just spend a lot of time with Christians, uh, sort of evangelizing them to the missions world and God's global purposes. So it's yeah, it's a very like very relational, very um, yeah, just like hanging out at coffee shops and being like, tell me about the short-term trip you're going on. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

Yeah. Okay, so it's a very relational job.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Yeah, that's awesome. So I'm curious. It's it's cool because you were talking about how, like, you know, so you're diagnosed with lupus, and then you're like, okay, so I guess I'm gonna be an artist now. I guess that's my calling. But then you like started having passion for missions, but you know, you just weren't sure. You thought maybe a pilot, and then you go to Urbana, and then your eyes were kind of opened of like, oh, like maybe God still has a purpose for me in missions. And then now you're in mobilization, and as you shared earlier, you are going to move to the field, and that's so intriguing. Like that you that you got from you know, being like, all right, I'm an artist, to okay, you're gonna be on the field in a few years, God willing. So I'm curious, like what that process was like for you. Like, how like what what did you realize that besides the opportunity of like, you know, a missions coach that was actually doable for you with your health, but like what helped you, you know, realize that that was an option? And then also, how are you like coming to the you know, the potential reality that like you could be like an actual missionary? You know, like because you talked about the fears of yeah, you're not gonna be able to live without medication, how are you gonna be in the sun? Like, and yeah, so I'm just curious, like, like how do you perceive that's gonna work? How did you get to this point?

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Yeah, so that has definitely been its own journey, especially since, let's see, almost two years ago now, I had a really bad flare. And it was shortly after we had started our mobilization jobs, and I

Flare, Setbacks, And Perseverance

SPEAKER_00 31:10

suddenly was just flat on my back for like two months. Oh my god. I had had a bout of COVID that triggered a flare that attacked my kidneys. And because of that, my kidneys stopped filtering the protein out of my urine. So I was peeing out all my protein and no protein was left in my blood. And the protein in your blood holds the fluid in your blood veins via osmosis. So I don't know if you're remembering back to like high school science classes, the osmosis, it's like the way you can hold fluid into something, even though it's a semi-permeable membrane. So basically, my yeah, my blood vessels were leaking fluid into all of my tissues and organs, including my lungs, which was intense to say the least. I couldn't lie down, I was constantly coughing, I couldn't breathe very well. It took a while for them to do all the tests and everything and be like, oh yeah, this is what it is. I'm like, I feel like I probably could have just told you what it is. Um but yeah, so I with that, and it with lupus, when you have a flare, it takes a long time to build up to it, but also a long time to recover from it. And so I spent a year just being like, okay, God, is this the sign that we're just supposed to stay here and do mobilization? Like, is this is this it? Like, because I do know people who have, for health reasons, stayed and their heart is really beating for the nations, but God keeps them here to mobilize because mobilization is powerful. Like, guys, seriously, we need people to mobilize almost just as much as we need people to go, because otherwise, how are people gonna know they need to go? But yeah, so I I had that discussion with God a lot about actually about last summer, and then I remember hearing a story of a man who was working in India, and he discovered I don't know what he had or anything, but that he had monthly blood transfusions in order to survive. He discovered what he needed monthly blood transfusions.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

He needed monthly blood transfusions to survive to survive. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

And so his team would drive him to the nearest large city once a month and get his blood transfusion. And he stayed in India. And I remember hearing that story, and I was like, Man, like what's what am I doing then? Like, and that was just kind of God being like, you know, you still have a heart for this, and no matter what happens, maybe there is something that's gonna happen still in the future that keeps us here. Keep moving like we're moving towards that other place. And that's kind of been the the theme all along is just move as far forward as we can go at a time and and see what happens, see where God leads us then. And so we just keep moving as far forward as we can go. And honestly, I feel like I've recovered from that flare surprisingly well, according to my doctors and stuff. That's awesome. So, and um, we talk a lot with field preparation about things like okay, you know, where do I go for doctor's appointments on the field? Where do I get medication and things like that? Um, and I think it can be scary when we're stepping into something new. Yeah. Like, oh my goodness, like I'm used to this hospital and this doctor, and you know, these, you know, this pharmacy, but we forget that, you know, there's other parts of the world that also have doctors and hospitals and pharmacies too. Um and they may just look a little different, but they're there, you know, and there's a trusting that God will provide and that God knows what we need. And He also just honors, you know, stepping out in faith, even when we're not sure what's what's going to happen. And I've really also been just convicted of I feel like amongst others that I know that have chronic illness, I am fairly high functioning. And I just want to use that for the kingdom. How can I steward my health the same way I would steward anything else in my life? My money, my time, my home. How can I steward this in the same way? Yeah, you know, because like even though I don't have perfect health, I might have more health than someone else. You know, not everyone has legs. I have legs, so how can I steward those legs to walk for the kingdom? And not everyone can see, but I can see. So how can I steward my vision for the kingdom? And so just thinking about that

Stewarding Health And Counting The Cost

SPEAKER_00 36:40

and trusting God as I'm trying to steward the resources I have.

SPEAKER_04 36:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

So yeah, that's definitely been its own journey. It's a human perspective. Yeah, and especially during those two months where I really was like very just flat on my back and like not really able to do anything, and just feeling like, oh God, there's like so many things that I want to be doing for your kingdom right now, and I can't, and I'm just like lying in bed, and I can't breathe, and I'm in the hospital in and out, and like I can't like walk, I can't even like stand up for a long period of time because of all the fluid. Like, I was so bloated, and so just also this understanding of like God doesn't actually need my work, the work that I do, the efforts I put in, He doesn't really need those, but they are a gift to me that I get to do these works when I have the chance. And so that was a whole nother sort of spiritual journey of like just realizing that like God's still working even when I can't, even when I am just like flat on my back, as I keep saying. I like God is still at work, even when I'm not, and so that's been another just yeah, a journey because I think we can very easily get into the missions world, mission circles, and it very much becomes about what are you doing? What am I doing? You gotta do something, and we do want to be active, but we also need to stop and remember that God is working even when we're not, and sometimes in spite of us, and we get to come along and and just kind of help out. I think oftentimes when my son, I have a a small son, when he was like two, he wanted to help me carry the groceries inside, and he cannot lift these heavy grocery bags at all. And so I would carry one handle and he would hold the other handle. And now obviously, I am holding the weight of the grocery bag on my handle, but he's just like holding this other handle like limply. And I think so much about how that is how we work with God. Like God is doing the heavy lifting, he's doing it, but we get to do it with him because that is our privilege as his sons and daughters. And I'm just loves that.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Yeah, that's a really sweet metaphor. Yeah, that's so beautiful. I absolutely, yeah. That's so beautiful. I've I've never heard like a metaphor quite like that, because I think I've often been confused, you know, the whole it's often like a Calvinist question where it's like, Well, why? Like, you know, if God has a plan or whatever, why are we involved? And you know, I've always heard the answer being what you said, but hearing that metaphor puts it into place nicely. So I love that. So how do you think? I think like even with mission mobilizing right now, because you said that you are taking like every step that you can to get to that point to where maybe you can be a missionary, you know, to the unreached. And so right now, that's what you're doing, you're taking those steps. And it's beautiful that you know you recovered from that really bad flare-up a few years ago. But I'm wondering, in your day-to-day life, do you find that your lupus affects your mobilizing or your life? Like, is it like a day to is it still, you know, like a chronic issue? Or yeah, I don't know. Tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Yeah, so I do um struggle with fatigue. So even though my son is definitely outgrown naps at this point, I have not. So we nap time is a part of our just daily routine because I'm just like, I I cannot make it through the day without a rest.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

So, what causes the fatigue? Do you know? Like, what what is lupus and why does it cause fatigue?

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Actually, that's a good question. I'm not entirely sure about that.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

But basically, all the like biology or anatomy behind it or whatever. Physiology, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Yeah, it is an autoimmune. So my immune system attacks me sometimes instead of just attacking self the uh things that want to, you know, different diseases, illnesses. You know, our immune system in general is constantly working. Anytime you get a paper cut, you know, there's so many

Climate, Calling, And Where To Serve

SPEAKER_00 41:45

things that our immune system takes care of that we don't even know we could have gotten sick from. And so that's kind of the thing is like instead of attack just attacking those things that might be, you know, invading my body, it also sometimes attacks me, like attacking my kidneys a couple years ago. Um and so I think I don't know exactly how it works, but I'm guessing it's just my because my immune system is going, fatigue happens. Like it is a common symptom when you like ask about lupus from professionals and stuff. I don't know, like for a while I feel like I didn't really have too bad fatigue. Um, but maybe there's something about being a mom too. That's just like it's so exhausting. Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

The other thing that definitely affects is yeah, the UV sensitivity and it being a UV-triggered illness. So I do still get you know the rashes and lesions on exposed parts of like my face and um my skin. And so I have learned to wear hats in the summertime, even though I was still against it in high school. And honestly, I don't wear sunscreen every single day, like the dermatologist told me, but I do am more conscientious about sunscreen. And also just, you know, not spending a lot of time outside during the height of the day.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Wow. And yeah, I definitely thought you were gonna finish that sentence of summer, not day.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Wow. Yeah, well, yeah, in general, like summer is a hard time. And so, okay, so here's another thing thinking about how we're managing this and looking forward to this vision of being overseas somewhere. So I know I'm not gonna be sustainable in the desert. Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

I was gonna say so many unreached places are in deserts.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

So yeah, or anywhere that's you know, like a tropical tribal island, you know, where there's just not a lot of resources. And I think we tend to have this view that oh, that's the places where unreached peoples live. But there's a lot of unreached peoples that are in other parts of the world. They live in cities, they live in cooler parts of the world, too. And so that's another thing that I found myself doing a lot in mobilization is kind of being like, what like what is your vision of who a missionary is and what sort of people do they work with? It might be different than what you think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Huh. That's really unique. So it's like thinking outside the box, like, okay, there are lost people everywhere. Like they're rich people in a lot of different climates. And I've I haven't considered that, so that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah. Yeah. So even if you look at if I don't know if the listeners are familiar with the 1040 window, but it's this area of the world that kind of goes from North Africa all the way across to Japan and like from like southern Russia and China all the way down to India and and like Asian Pacific Islands there. And even even in that area of the world, which is known for being the most unreached, you have a wide variety of types of people groups living in both urban and and agrarian settings, as well as like hot to cold weather. So like we've got like that central Asia area where the weather still can get very cold in winter, and it might be very similar weather to, you know, where I live in the northern United States right now, you know. And so the the thing is is just kind of discovering that the the need out there is maybe just as diverse as the people that we have here that are looking for something to do.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Um and I love that that is a thing.

Five Ways To Engage The Nations

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Like, oh my goodness, like God is a God of diversity, like He made humans diverse, He made creation diverse, and He's given us diverse opportunities and diverse outlooks on life and diverse cultures to enjoy. And He He created that all that diversity on purpose because it is just beautiful. So, yeah, and I think that that is something that yeah, going and thinking about mobilization again, like what what skills do you have? What needs do you have? Like, there's probably a place that's perfect for you out there.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

Oh wow. What an encouraging thing to hear, honestly.

unknown 47:07

I'm glad.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Yeah, that's so neat because I'm I'm sure there are many. I mean, I I feel like having you know, having a heart permissions is pretty niche and having a chronic illness is pretty niche, but I mean, you know, as you know, you've struggled with that, and I I know that there are other some other people in the organization that you're with that have struggled with that, and you know that's something that I've struggled with in my life too, just having that heart. So that's yeah, that's encouraging. That's really neat to hear.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

I'm glad. Yeah. That's been my hope for this episode is just to yeah, encourage people in that and and also just in having a heart for God's global purpose, you know, that's that's for everyone, whether you're here or there. And um it's such it's such a gift.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

So what do you think are some ways that for those with chronic illness that really think, you know, they're not gonna be able to go overseas, you know, even if they consider, you know, like the different options of climates, like you talked about, like if they're just so, you know, bogged out even where they are, you know, maybe even for those who are bedridden, what would you say are some ways that they can be part of God's, you know, growing of his kingdom, especially, you know, regarding the nations? What are some ways that they can be involved in that, even you know, if they're yeah highly episodic?

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Yeah, so there's something that we talk about a lot is the five ways the the five ways to engage with God's world, and that is praying. Sorry, I get my list here now. I love that praying, sending, welcoming, going, mobilizing. Okay, and so oftentimes I I tell people this list, it's not a pick your thing and do just that one thing, but that everyone can participate in multiples of views, and each one is so vital. Like praying, oh my goodness, prayer is the foundation before anything can happen. Something really fascinating that I just learned this year is if you've ever heard of the Moravians, they were a well, and they still exist, but they sort of early in the Protestant missions movement as a church felt this need that they needed to go to places where the gospel wasn't and share. And they we find Moravian missionaries sprinkled throughout a lot of the world, throughout history, doing really cool things. But something that we don't talk about a lot is there before that happened, there was a prayer movement. They incredibly prayed non-stop for a hundred years. Wow, the Moravian? They had shifts, they had let's see, 24 men and 24 women, and they took hour shifts. So they always had one man and one woman praying every hour of the day for a hundred years. Wow. And that is honestly the cement that the modern missions movement is built on. And so praying for the world, praying for unreached peoples is such a vital thing, and we always are needing more people to pray. And praying is also a way that God can shape your heart too. So I always tell people when the news is scary, when you see wars, you know, as Jesus said, you hear of wars and rumors of wars. When you hear those rumors of wars, pray because we tend to feel really helpless. But praying makes us not helpless. So that is always like my first thing is just pray. And in that prayer, sometimes God shows you other things that you can do too. Sending is so vital because how can they go unless they are sent, as Paul says in Romans. You know, everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, but how can they call on him in whom they have not heard? And how can they hear unless someone preaches? And how can they preach unless someone sends them? And so sending is so vital, and we really need to be supporting and sending our missionaries well. And there's whole books and classes that you can take to learn how to send and support your missionaries.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Oh, okay, that's cool. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

So if any of the I don't know a lot about this program because I've not done it and I haven't been a part of a church that has done it.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

But if any of the listeners are like, I want to learn how to send, well, there's a program called Senders University where a church can have that pump and they can learn how to send missionaries really well.

L. A. 52:46

That's so neat.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Yeah, on top of that, there's like a lot of books and and other things that you could read too. Um, but I think maybe the best thing is if you have a missionary that your church supports, you could just ask them what they

Sending Well And Church Support

SPEAKER_00 53:00

need, you know.

SPEAKER_02 53:01

Hey you, what do you need?

SPEAKER_00 53:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 53:07

Yeah. So uh, but I think sending is a lot more complex than we tend to give it credit for. It's not just throwing money at someone and being, don't do the thing.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Yeah, but their newsletter every now and again.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Yeah. Yeah. Like there's a lot more to it, you know. They they need that moral support, they need to feel like they've got their team back home that's got their back, you know. Um, and that's so vital for a successful mission because honestly, a lot of missionaries come home after just two years. Um, and a lot of times it's just because lack of emotional, moral, financial support, and that's an easily preventable thing. So that is vital to seeing this work completed too.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Can I ask you an interesting question? Yeah. Okay, so I know you're not, you know, overseas right now if you end up going overseas. But if you do, and with you know, your lupus and everything, and if in anticipating that future, and I know you probably don't know that you get there. Do you have any idea what you would say if a church asked you, what do you, Lucy, need as a mom with a chronic illness overseas? Wow.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Do you have any idea like how you'd answer that question?

SPEAKER_00 54:31

So that's hard to say, thinking about that future context. I feel like in the present context, even as we've, you know, been wanting a church that sends us well and you know, wanting to have that sort of care as we're preparing. Yeah, I think just yeah, a church that is really sees us as like one of their ministries, you know, because I a lot of churches have a approach to missions where it's like, oh, if someone comes to us and is like, I have a thing I'm gonna do, and then we'll give them money.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

But I think an a better approach would be okay, who in our congregation can really care for, holistically care for and commission and send out. And so yeah, just having that holistic care of, you know, not just the financial support, but the prayers, the like, how are you doing? Tell me about your what's happening in your ministry. Is there something I can volunteer for? Maybe when you're on the field, then maybe sending short-term trips to that missionary to join in their work, and just this sort of holistic feeling of we're not just an outlier over here doing a thing, but the church is really behind us, and the people are really behind us. These are our friends, and we're honestly family.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Yeah. Like we're a team, even though we're not locationally in the same place, you know. Yeah. I've heard other people like, okay, so send the kids gifts, gift boxes with stickers or things like that, you know, letters just saying, hey, we're thinking about you praying for you.

SPEAKER_04 56:36

That's cute.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Yeah. Personal visits from church leaders. And so that that is a huge commitment for a church to be able to raise up the money to send a church leader, you know, to buy their plane ticket, to send them over to visit for a while. But that I think speaks eons to have a personal visit like that to just be cared for.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

Yeah. Okay, so sending. And then so you said praying, sending.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Welcoming would be the next. So that is a unique thing. We tend to think of unreached people groups as only being over there, like I said, in the 1040 window. We have so many unreached people groups that are coming here to the US, and it's an amazing opportunity. So, one of the beautiful things that I've had the privilege of being a part of the past,

Welcoming Unreached Neighbors Nearby

SPEAKER_00 57:40

I don't know, year, I guess, is there's a lot of Somali people in the area that I live in. And if you go on Joshua Project, which if the listeners don't know Joshua Project, it's a great website where you can kind of get a glimpse at the people groups of the world, where work is happening, where it's not, and learn about the people groups and also pray for them. So you can go on there as a prayer resource too. But Joshua Project has separate pages for a people group depending on where they're at. So the Somali people in Kenya have a different page than the Somali people in Somalia. Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. And so the Somali people in the US have their own page and they are marked as a frontier people group, which is basically like the step up from unreached. Meaning there's just there's there's just no gospel witness amongst them here, and no movement started, nothing. And I think we tend to walk past unreached people groups in our neighborhood and not notice them because they're just there, but they're still here waiting to hear the gospel, and there's still a cultural barrier that has to be crossed.

SPEAKER_04 59:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

You know, when you're going to, especially like a Muslim people group like Somali people are, you know, there's very huge cultural barriers sometimes. Like I can't go up to a man and have a gospel conversation because I'm a woman. I need my husband to go up and have the gospel conversation with the man, and I'll have the gospel conversation with the other girl down the street, you know. So there's a huge cultural barrier still, even though they live down the street from a church, they're never gonna set foot in that church because of that cultural barrier. Right. Yeah. So they still need someone who's willing to step across that barrier and love them in the way Jesus would love them. So that's been a very cool thing as I've been able to be a part of a church that is for the first time asking how do we love our Somali neighbor as ourselves? Dude, that's so sweet. So yeah, I'm very excited for them. I mean, just uh. It's so exciting. So that is a very cool thing. Like here in the US, that's happening, and we can be a part of. And it's a privilege to be a part of. Yeah, I'm very excited. And besides Somali people, there's a lot of other immigrant populations. Yeah. Even besides international students. International students are an amazing opportunity as well. I know a girl from Japan, and Japan is an unreached country. A girl from Japan who came here from college and became a Christian while she was at college. And that's an opportunity she wouldn't have had if she had stayed in Japan, most likely. So it's just very exciting the things that are happening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

Wow. That's so cool. I love that. Yeah, I think I used to like, you know, definitely, because it's so much more like of an exciting idea to like be this missionary overseas in this whole new country. And that's great. Like that's what God called you to do. You know, like he had Paul in the Bible go to a bunch of different places. So like, you know, and specifically Rome, you know, Paul's like, oh, like place he really wanted to go his whole life, you know, to share Jesus with Rome. But you know, it's often like unhealthily like glorified in our minds, you know. And so I think that's a really beautiful thing that you brought up that for years, you know, people have been telling me, and I'm starting to have to like actually accept is that you know, there are people right here, you know, that you love that you can share Jesus with.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

And yeah, and it doesn't even have to, yeah, it doesn't even have to be your neighbor that looks and talks like you. Like there's it we have so much diversity here. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

And what a shame we would pass them by just because you don't have to cross a border, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

I think that's another thing that like that kind of has to be torn down in the mind of the American church is that, you know, like I said before, who do you think of when you s when you say missionary and who are the people they're working with? You know? And not that I'm saying, oh, everything is missions, our, you know, a lot of churches you'll go to and they'll say, our, you know, our student outreach is missions, our you know, kids program is missions. And I don't think that that's the case because if everything is missions, then suddenly nothing is missions, and it can give that church an excuse not to support cross-cultural work overseas. But I think we also need to discover that, like, yeah, we have whole unreached people groups here in our cities that you know might be waiting for someone to care and make a concerted effort towards them. Yeah, yeah. So it's it's very, it's very exciting, and it is a little bit of a debate going on right now, honestly. Like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:01

Interesting. Interesting. Well, I'm curious about that, but probably for another time.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

Yeah, I'm treated. Yeah, if you

Going And Mobilizing With Chronic Illness

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

ever want me to come on again, I'll let you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

I've have enjoyed this for sure.

L. A. 1:03:16

Oh, I'm glad me too.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:19

Okay, so you have welcoming, and then there were two more, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

So the last two are ones that we've kind of already talked about going and mobilizing.

L. A. 1:03:32

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

So going, of course, that's you know, pretty self-explanatory. We talked a little bit about that, and mobilizing, I think, is something that honestly God calls a lot of globally minded believers to do that come across chronic illness. I've run into a lot of chronic illness mobilizers in my time mobilizing. Yeah, especially because oftentimes the people that are most passionate are the ones that were ready to go to the ends of the earth and then couldn't. Yes. But God uses that passion. He uses that passion. And we need that. We the church needs to hear that, like, there's something we need to do. Um so yeah, that last mobilizing, and I think sometimes can be even harder than going. Um so yeah, it's kind of beautiful. Like I'd say the step beyond going.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:36

Yeah, that's awesome. So if not going, which you know, hopefully, and and I think we can certainly limit ourselves as chronically ill people. It's funny because I feel like we either push ourselves and over exert ourselves, or we're like, you know, kind of just diminish our limits because we're like, well, then that'll be, you know, whatever. But so if not going, there are still plenty of ways to be active in God's growing kingdom, like sending, you know, healthily and helpfully sending, you know, missionaries and mobilizing and praying and welcoming even your your neighbor from another country. Or yeah, yeah. That's really cool. Thanks for sharing those opportunities, you know, for us chronically ill brothers and sisters who have a heart for the nations. If we're like, what do we do now? That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Yeah, it can be hard to get to that point where you're just kind of talking with God, like, okay, well, like what am I supposed to do? Like, why am I here? What's my purpose?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

Um, but it's very at the same time, kind of just exciting, you know, to just talk with God about okay, like, because he has the best possible spot for you in his plan. Um, and that is so reassuring. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Thank you. Well, to wrap up your interview, I had two last questions. Well, they're kind of the same, but you know, what is one thing you would say to chronically ill brothers and sisters regarding, you know, finding God's plan for their lives? And what is one thing you would just say to Christians in general, trying to find God's plans, God's plan for their lives?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

I would say um Or maybe it's the same thing. I don't know. It's up to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:36

Yeah. I think the general one, just

Scripture, Calling, And Encouragement

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

look in scripture. I think the other thing that held me back for so long was maybe a misunderstanding of of scripture, especially passages like, you know, the Great Commission, where you know, Jesus is t giving his church a job to do. But I kind of distanced myself from that and felt like, oh, if if I'm gonna, you know, go overseas, I need to have this sort of road to Damascus experience. Um experience, the call, the the when the writing on the wall, the confirmations, you know, all of that. And I came across this just actually another book I highly recommend. And there's now been, I think, a movie made you. So you may have seen the movie, The Insanity of God. Such a good read. Highly recommend it. The insanity of God. And the author talks about his call to missions, and when he and his wife were signing on with ascending agency, and they asked about their call, and he was like, Well, I just, you know, I read Matthew 28. And they were like, What? And he's like, Well, but it says there that we should go to, you know, and preach the gospel to all nations. And they're like, No, no, you're supposed to have you know, and and I realized that's that's all it takes. Like, I don't have to have the vision or the warm fuzzies, but just that that that great commission is for the whole church, and that includes me. Yeah, and that includes you, and we don't have to sit and question our calling because that is for the whole church, and then after that, then you know, I didn't have a heart for this people group or that people group, but I can ask God to give me that heart, and He will, He is faithful, and He will give you the heart for whatever people you're trying to reach, whatever people you're praying for, whoever, you know, maybe you have Somali neighbors, maybe you have Afghan neighbors, you know, he will give you the heart for that. And we tend to not ask for those sorts of things, you know. We don't ask God, we ask God for our material needs, but we don't ask him for our spiritual needs, we don't ask him for you know his heart for the nations, his heart for a person or a people. We don't ask him for fruits of the spirit, like that's a thing, like just ask. And we tend to not do that, so that's something that I tell people a lot is just ask. If you feel like you don't have a calling, just ask God, you know, pick something even and just ask, and just be like, God, would you send me to XYZ? You know, get or give me a heart for Buddhist people, give me a heart for, you know, yeah, just ask. And he I I guarantee you he will be faithful in that because he wants you to care for these people because he cares for them and loves them. So I think that's my general one. And then I think for yeah, for people that are struggling with chronic illness, something some things that have really encouraged me is just reading Paul's writings. And Paul talks a lot about the really hard things that happen in life, because you guys know this, but it's sometimes life sucks. Sometimes it sucks, if I'm being entirely honest. But Paul talks about how in our weaknesses God is stronger, and over and over in the Bible we see that God uses the weak things of the world to shame the strong. And so just brother or sister who's listening, know that the weakness you have in whatever illness you have, that is something that God is gonna use to glorify himself. He he will use you in ways that he can't use someone who's perfectly healthy because God's power is manifested more through human weaknesses, which is just so cool. And I wanted to just leave everyone with this Bible verse Let's see. Second Corinthians 4 16. Therefore, we do not lose heart, though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. Actually, I'll go on to verse 17. For our light and momentary troubles now, he's just described how he thought he was gonna die. Like a chapter before. He just described how he thought he was gonna die. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So I've I've taken a lot of comfort in in that, and I I hope that you can too.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:29

Yeah. That literally made me just think, like, wow, like that's beautiful. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for being on this interview, Lucy. It's been really, really neat hearing like your encouragement for you know people like me who have a heart for God's plan for the world, but also feel, you know, the limit, limits and weight of chronic illness. And so it's really like so special to hear like you who have already walked that path and you know, process that and it's also super encouraging to hear that, you know, you might go overseas. So I'm super excited for you and for your family, and can't wait to see what God does with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:12

Oh, thank you. I'm I'm so glad I got the chance to come on here with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:16

Yes, absolutely. It's been so fun.

Closing Reflections And Outro

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

All right, well, thanks so much. I hope that God gives you, you know, all the returns and blessings for taking your time and your energy to be on this podcast. And I hope you get a good nap.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:34

Thank you. Yeah, of course. Yeah. All right, take care. You too. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:42

Bye.

L. A. 1:13:44

Thank you for being a part of the Christians with Chronic Illnesses community and for tuning into our podcast. Please follow, rate, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Patreon. You can also follow our socials at CWCI Podcast. If you're interested in sharing your God given story, we'd love for you to email us at cwcipodcast at gmail.com. This podcast cannot substitute for medical help and is purely for encouragement and entertainment. Please see your doctor before trying anything mentioned on this show.