Bipolar Disorder and Joyful Dancing with Jessie VanDevelde

The beat drops, the lights glow, and something unexpected happens: people who feel out of place on Sunday morning find themselves at home praising God on a dance floor. That image frames our conversation with Jess—a wife, mom, and worship leader—who shares a candid, deeply human story of living with bipolar disorder while building spaces where bodies and hearts can worship without apology.

We trace Jess’s journey from meeting Jesus in Sunday school to discovering a love for serving on mission trips, then into the labyrinth of diagnosis, depression, and medication. She opens up about her first manic episode triggered by an antidepressant, the hard won stability she found with lithium and quetiapine, and the everyday choices that steady her—sleep care, less caffeine, intentional community, and counsel that blends Scripture and therapy. Along the way, she explains how worship and the Word reshape harmful narratives, turning shame into truth-telling and isolation into connection.

We also face tough questions about healing. Jess walks through the disappointment of chasing miracles that didn’t come, and how Scripture reoriented her expectations: Jesus didn’t heal every person, Paul’s thorn remained, and wisdom often looks like both prayer and practical care. Instead of hollow promises, she offers a durable hope—grace that holds when symptoms surge, friends who walk you through lows, and a God who uses suffering to grow humility, gratitude, and compassion for others. If you’ve wrestled with bipolar disorder, depression, or the tension between faith and medicine, this conversation is a steady hand and a clear path forward.

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Transcript

Meet Jess: Mentor And Mom

L. A. 0:00

I'm your Jesus loving and potty host, L. A. Sprague. Welcome to Christians with Chronic Illnesses. Okay, so everybody, I get to interview my mentor, Jess. I won't steal all the thunder, but why don't you tell everyone a little bit about yourself? Whatever you're comfortable sharing, you know, your name or whatever.

Jessie 0:35

Hi, I'm Jess. I am a wife, a mother, have an 11-year-old daughter. Um I love dancing, dance music. I do. I do. Electronic dance music. Yeah. What do you do with your electronic dance music?

L. A. 0:56

Like this? Well, you have ministries.

Jessie 1:02

Yes. But that's how

Dance Worship And Jubilee Praise Night

Jessie 1:04

it starts. Okay, I know. So at first I started dance worship class or dance dance worship fitness class, which is kind of like it started with Zumba and then it morphed into whatever it is now, which is electronic dance worship music, and it's a lot of exercise, full body exercise. But the thing I'm really excited about is coming up in November. We're gonna have Jubilee Dance Praise Night at our church, and this is just something God's been working on for a long time. And basically, it's just gonna be kind of like a dance club atmosphere. It's not a dance club. The pastor wants me to tell everyone it's not a dance club, it's not a church, it's gonna have black lights and party lights and just like good mood, you know, setting. And but the main thing about it is it's gonna be praise music that you've heard on the radio, which is ramped up electronic dance music style. And it's to praise God and bring your neighbor that might not come to Sunday morning service, you know, but they might come to this because it's they like to dance, but there's gonna be testimonies of God's goodness and prayer and kids' ministry, and I'm super excited. Yeah, so I hope you're coming. No pressure, you know pressure, and I hope you're coming.

L. A. 2:29

So, do you want to explain like where that is?

Jessie 2:32

Sure, yeah, sure. It's it's in Sandwich, Illinois, at Cornerstone Church, but it's in the cornfield. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's in a building, it's not in the corn, but it's near the corn. It's in a building. What else? Oh, it's November 14th at 6 30.

L. A. 2:55

Yeah, yeah.

Jessie 2:56

Thanks for letting me do that plug.

L. A. 2:57

I didn't know 2025. 2025. Yeah.

Jessie 3:00

So well, hopefully it'll keep going. Yeah.

L. A. 3:04

Oh, fun. Well, hopefully this podcast will be out by then. But if not, you do more than that. You know, you do like you've done several of those, right? The dance nights.

Jessie 3:13

Well, this is bigger. This is like okay. I've been preparing this one for a while. So this will

From Baptist Pews To EDM Praise

Jessie 3:19

be, I mean, I'm hoping a lot more people will comment the lighting is is any better. And the music I've been preparing for a while. It's not my music, I've just been doing the playlist, you know. But yeah, it's I'm hoping it's going to touch people in a way that maybe just standing and singing won't because you know everybody's different. Like I I hold back a lot in my Sunday morning church. Like you do? I I yes, I do. I may not look like it. I mean, me and a couple people, you know, dance a little bit, but that's not what we want to do. But it's just we're in a pew, you know, and it's awkward.

L. A. 3:58

Hey, I grew up Pentecostal, so you can run around if you want, even if they're pew like run on top of them, you know.

Jessie 4:03

Yes, we grew up Baptist where you don't dance. So yeah.

L. A. 4:09

But here we are with your electric music dancing.

Jessie 4:13

No, just a shout out to Paul though, because Pastor Paul, because he he grew up Baptist where you don't dance. He works at this conservative Christian church where I don't think most people are like really into dancing there, and that's fine. But like he is so open-minded to doing whatever he thinks God's directing people to do, even if it's not something he's interested in. Yeah. So I really give give him a shout out because not every pastor's gonna be like, sure.

L. A. 4:46

Yeah. Well, you do that.

Jessie 4:51

Not a dance club.

L. A. 4:53

But it is. Okay. Okay, sweet. So your mom of an 11-year-old, very cute, love that. You love ministry. Yes, it's a very big part of your heart and dancing electronically.

Jessie 5:14

Well, the music is electronic. I'm not dancing like this.

L. A. 5:18

I can grow that. I could see it. So, so all those, right? Like, you seem to have a heart to glorify Christ, because I mean, I know you in your life, and even like the way that you parent, you like pray a lot about that.

Early Faith And Meeting Jesus

L. A. 5:32

You pray a lot about your ministry. So, how did you come to know Christ? Like, who is he to you? Yeah, you want to share, like, I don't know, what's what's he leading you to share, Jen?

Jessie 5:42

Oh well, I met him at church when I was young. My parents took me to church, and I'm really grateful for that because those, you know, when you're young, your memories really stick, you know, like throughout your life. They form you and shape you, and so I I knew right away that he that Jesus was loving and loved me and loved children and had good things for me, and was my savior, a redeemer, all of all of those things I I learned, and that stuck. And that was like what really helped me later in life was remembering that. So that's how it how it started and um just developed over time. We we went to different churches, but you know, I have really good memories in each church of like the pastor represented Jesus well and mission trips and serving people, and just yeah, just God developed a relationship with me throughout the years, and not necessarily a lot of my doing, you know, a lot of my doing was just my parents brought me to church, you know, or I wanted to go on a trip. I didn't necessarily maybe want to serve people, I just wanted to go on a trip, you know. So, but God taught me that serving people is really awesome and it's a great connection with the people you do it with. How does he teach you that? Well, you know, this I think I was 15, I was really selfish, you know, teenage no offense to teenagers, but like a lot of it is like what's in it for me, you know, at that age. And it was just great because like we went and we didn't get any money, you know, there was nothing really in it for us. Like we just went on the trip, went to Appalachian Mountains in West Virginia. At the time it was the poorest county in the country. Wow, and so we just worked on like we didn't really have any skills to paint or like work on a porch or things like that, but we just helped out however we could, and the people were so grateful, and it was fun working together, and you know, our leaders were really positive and upbeat, and like they made it like a really good experience, and then we'd play volleyball afterwards, and like and you know, we're right by the Appalachian Mountains, so we could see the mountains, and it was just like like a purity to it, humbleness or humility, purity and self-sacrifice, you know, things that you don't necessarily look for when you're younger, yeah, you're just like looking for a fun time, you know.

L. A. 8:25

But it was fun too. Yeah, so you feel like the Lord gave you a heart for serving during like short-term missions trips?

Jessie 8:31

Yeah, definitely. That's cool. Yeah, from that trip. Yeah, and I love short-term missions now.

L. A. 8:36

Really? Yeah, I do. That's so cool. That's good to hear because I know that like you know, some people it's like I don't know if you've heard this, but there's like discrepancy between like the effectiveness of like short-term missions and long-term missions and stuff. But I'm glad to hear it. Any serving is good.

Jessie 8:52

What? Any serving is good, right? Whether it's like a day or an hour or a week or years, you know. Yeah, yeah. That's cool that God gave you heart. Well, you give what you can give. Like I can't give years, I can't, you know, leave for years, and I couldn't as a teen, but I could give a week, you know. So, or a weekend, even. Yeah. Whatever you can do. That's cool. Yeah.

L. A. 9:16

I really like the way that you worded when you were talking about I asked, like, you know, like who is Christy you or when did you whatever? You said that you met him at church. That was cute. I've never heard it worded like that before, which is very sweet.

Jessie 9:30

Oh, okay. Did it well I just what I remember, like they had the felt, you know, the felt, I don't know what they're called, but like the board and like all the people would stick on the board because they're felt, yeah, those were amazing. Oh, yeah. And I remember just the pictures of Jesus with all the kids surrounding him, and he just looked so kind and loving. And yeah, that's that's where I met him for sure. Oh yeah, I don't I don't remember meeting him at home.

L. A. 9:53

Was there like was there a specific moment? Like, was that the moment, or was it kind of like you just know?

Jessie 9:59

I just really liked Sunday school.

L. A. 10:01

Yeah.

Jessie 10:01

I thought it was really fun, and I liked looking at the pictures, and I liked listening to the the teachers. I mean, I was only there for you know, probably preschool age or so. Yeah. And then we, you know, my parents divorced well maybe I was there longer than that, because my parents divorced when I was 10. So then we went to a different church. Yeah. So

Teen Missions And Learning To Serve

Jessie 10:22

there was a different setup, but they were just the people there. Like, I don't remember the people being so loving at the first church, but I just remember meeting Jesus. And the second church, the people were really loving. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, it was good. That's cute. Yeah, and that's right. Developed a ministry for me serving children because that's where I started working in the the nursery, and I got all these babysitting jobs for through that, and then also through VBS, I would volunteer and help with VBS, and it was so great.

L. A. 10:55

What would you say is like you said like you met you met Christ at church and that he looked like kind and stuff. So, what would you say is like one characteristic that you knew as a kid of God that like now you're still certain of? Like, what's one like attribute of God that sticks out to you the most that has clung to you like since the beginning?

Jessie 11:19

God loves me no matter what. Like I always remembered didn't matter if I sinned, like he didn't want me to, but he forgave me and was loving and kept wanting me to come back to him and wanting a relationship with me. His unconditional love. Yeah, unconditional love. Yeah.

L. A. 11:40

Okay, so I mean, perfect segue. Because not only, you know, is this about Christians, but Christians with chronic illnesses. So don't do so you you you firmly believe in God's unconditional love, and that no matter what you do, no matter where you go, He will love you.

Jessie 12:01

Yeah.

L. A. 12:01

So I would love to hear how that has made itself very obvious. I guess God has made himself very obvious in his love for you in your chronic illness. So why don't you tell us then about what is your chronic illness and yeah, what is it? What are the symptoms? What's life like with it?

Jessie 12:21

Okay. So, well, when I was 15, like actually, when I went on that mission trip, that first mission trip, I was completely depressed.

Bipolar Diagnosis And Deep Lows

Jessie 12:32

Like I didn't even know if I was gonna make the trip because I started having depression really badly when I was 15. All of a sudden it would just come on. And by the end of the trip, through all that greatness of the trip, and the depression lifted. I remember going home, like bouncing off the you know, like literally like like I was just like flipping over the seats, and I was so excited, and and so like then I do go through these ups and downs of that same thing, really low lows, and then I'd have higher highs, really low lows. I didn't know what was going on. So later when I was 18, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And you know, it's that's probably very accurate. I say probably just because there's not a test that proves that you have it, like some illnesses you can prove it through blood test or other other things, maybe, but with bipolar, it's more just like symptom management, and yeah. So my issue was always depression, that was my biggest problem. Like normally I'm a bubbly person, and so just like the flipping over the seats and everything, I was like, I just like to do stuff like that, you know. So to me, that wasn't like an issue at all. It was a depression. Like, I became a totally different person. I had no joy, no happiness. I didn't want to leave my house. Like, I didn't, like I refused to go to school. I missed so much school. I missed probably like at first like two weeks of school because it was triggered by my best friend dating my boyfriend, and it would just like was so heartbreaking to me that like triggered the first depression. Yeah, so I stayed home for at least a week, and then it just became uh episodes of getting better than dips, like really low dips, and it would just come out of nowhere. I didn't know what was happening, my parents didn't know how to deal with it. Like at first, they thought I just didn't want to go to school, but it I didn't want to do anything. Yeah, it wasn't like I was just skipping school and then having fun. There was no fun, there was no joy. Like I became a totally different person, you know. Almost didn't even graduate high school because like spring break. I remember going to spring break, and then after that I was depressed. So like I had like two months maybe until graduation, and I told my mom I'm not going back to school. And so I had to read I had to take another semester the next year. Yeah, because I just for me, there was no faking it, like there was no going through the motions, there was no like just put on a happy face, get dressed up, and you'll be better. Like, I didn't want to change my clothes, I didn't want to shower, it was bad, it was really a deep, deep depression. And then when I gradu I did end up graduating because I was a good student, it just it was too much work to make up, you know. So I ended up graduating late from high school, and then my uh when I started, I started at North Central College in in Naperville, I just figured the depression was like a kid thing, and when I became an adult and I was 18 now, it would go away. And so I I lasted like they did trimesters there, so I think I lasted like three months, and I was depressed again, had to drop all my classes. It was it was really discouraging because I wanted to be in college. I I really did, I loved socializing, I loved learning, I loved, you know, didn't necessarily like the studying part, but I I liked school. I just the depression just took over every area of my life to where like I would just lay on the couch and watch TV just to pass

Mania, Meds, And Trial And Error

Jessie 16:40

the time. And anyway, so I went to a doctor, got diagnosed with bipolar. I mean, it was like looking back, I can see why I doubted the diagnosis because she was like maybe asked me 15 minutes of questions, yeah. That could be, you know, other things. And then she gave me lithium and prozac and was like, all right, you know, you're bipolar. Wow. So I left, I took the medicine, and I had never had a manic episode ever in my life until I started taking the Prozac.

L. A. 17:16

So what's what's that? What's a manic episode?

Jessie 17:19

So, you know, bipolar is like, let's say this is even, like you have severe dips of depression, and then you also have mania. So and everybody has little differently. Mania is like the opposite of depression, basically. That's how I describe it, where like you don't really need sleep. I didn't sleep for seven days. Whoa, oh, that was because of the Prozac. Yeah. So I didn't sleep for seven days. It was very interesting. I mean, you so for me, I feel really good when I have the mania or hypomaniac is like a lesser, lesser um degree. I enjoy it, it feels good. This was like drug-induced because of the Prozac, which is like an indication that you have bipolar if antidepressants give you that reaction of mania. That's what I learned later, but I didn't know. So yeah, so it was very challenging trying to figure out medication. Like you know, when you're first diagnosed with an illness, you know anything about the illness. So it's all trial and error, and you you try to go based on what the doctor says, but doesn't always work. So, especially with mental health, they give you medicines that they think are going to be helpful, but they don't know your brain chemistry. They don't know really anything about you. Yeah, so they'll give you a little of this or whatever, and then it may not work for weeks, months, and then you have to maybe lower it or increase it, or you have to add something. It's very hard to figure out what's gonna work. You're like your own guinea pig. Yeah, so it can be really frustrating, and then if you have depression, then you can be susceptible to feeling suicidal because of it, yeah. Which is, you know, obviously very dangerous, and so it can be very complicated. So did I answer your question?

L. A. 19:22

Yeah, yeah, it does. Okay, so bipolar, you would say, so you said it's mostly there's like a stable, like like most people like this stable emotional state, but then with bipolar and depression, it's almost a swing back and forth between depression, which is the down, and the you know, maybe suicidal thoughts or tendencies and yeah, sadness, and then the mania is like the opposite. So sometimes you don't need sleep. What are like some other symptoms of mania besides like maybe restlessness?

Jessie 19:54

Like so just just to make sure everybody knows, like, this is just my yeah form of it. Everybody has their own form so like there's different very varying variables and everything but so when I learned not to take antidepressant my mania got like a lot more manageable to where it was like good where I liked it you know where it was like hypomaniac with maniac hypomania so like I've learned like what makes you more manic caffeine cigarettes nicotine those kind of things like I used to chain smoke because I worked in dance clubs and bars and like you just smoke you know so not that you have

Lifestyle Changes And Holistic Care

Jessie 20:42

to but so I used to smoke a lot and I would drink a lot of caffeine and obviously that's going to increase mania you know so then I learned okay I'm not gonna do that anymore you know and I mean obviously that takes time sometimes to get off those things too but I'll clean my house like you've never seen like ooh it looks good you know everything's put away so I mean there can be benefits to it you can't help it like it's not like you're like ooh today I'm gonna be man I can you know like and like you know do my you don't I don't know if you know this but that's like the genie I'll get like you know what I mean like I'm gonna summons my mania all of a sudden so I can clean. No it just it just just happens. You know I've just learned like my issues the depression so I have to work on that and if I work on that and I can help help that then everything else is better.

L. A. 21:47

Okay.

Jessie 21:47

And there is medium too like there is a a middle ground it's not like I'm either low or high okay that's good. You have some stability and yeah and you know thank God he's helped me learn you know like I said don't take the stimulants you know like you gotta you gotta learn like a lifestyle change you know which I think every illness you have to learn a lifestyle change yeah or even even without a even without an illness you know you have to learn how to just take good care of yourself and that takes time yeah you know but yeah but medication I think is really important if you are diagnosed with certain mental health disorders because I do believe in miracles but I also believe that God gives us medicine and something for like bipolar it's very hard to manage it without medication. Now something like anxiety or depression that might be a different story but bipolar is a little bit different as well as like schizophrenia that's a little more challenging so medication is helpful. Yeah but it's not easy you know just like like diabetes you have to manage your diabetes with like eating well checking your blood sugar levels exercising helps things like that if you don't then you could have a serious health issue. Same thing with bipolar many times you're feeling better because the medication's helping you and this has happened to me a few times I'm like I'm feeling better I don't need this medicine because it's a pride thing. It's like I could do this on my own I don't need this I don't need this crutch.

L. A. 23:38

Yeah I know they just stop taking your medicine and then it's yeah from there.

Jessie 23:44

I know and then you kind of have to start again and learn okay this does help me and it is a learning experience. Yeah that's why I just like really want people to know that like this isn't just like one person has this you know like many many people have many many different things even even Christians. Yeah you know we're not different because we're Christian like we are different in a way but we can still get any you know we can get diabetes we can get heart disease we can get bipolar you know and it doesn't mean we're less Christian it just means that we're human you know so yeah but it it's it's it's something that like I I used to say you know God if you just took this away with a miracle oh my goodness look what people would you would say and think like they'd be so amazed by you that you could just take it away you know and and just like almost like trying to convince them like why don't

Scripture, Worship, And Renewing The Mind

Jessie 24:52

you do that you know because I did not want to deal with it anymore you know sick of it. But I've learned that if he just takes things away then we'd we miss out on a lot of what we could have learned yeah with having it but but it doesn't necessarily make it easy you know it just but the best things like the best things in life usually come when it's not easy. Like you really worked hard for something you know so I don't know it's it's just like thankfully he has helped me to find medication that works well. Do you mind saying what that is yeah I take lithium so I always took lithium I never really thought like it really helped me until like seven years ago my doctor added it's called Ciroquil okay or quatiopine I don't know they have there's like the generic I know it's two different totally different names but one easier for the lithium to pronounce right when I found that with the lithium I got like seven or eight years with no symptoms at all wow yeah that's incredible. Yeah so I mean it just showed me that there is hope for having that now does that mean it's always going to be that way not necessarily because what happened was I so I was doing good for like seven years or so and then doing good meaning no no depression or anxiety or it was like very minimal like like a normal amount you know whatever normal is right and so I thought well I never knew if the lithium actually helped me so I thought oh let's lower it and I asked my husband and he was like yeah that sounds reasonable just lower it a little bit to see and my doctor was fine with it so I lowered it a little bit and I did have a depression and so it just showed me you know I tried not to be disappointed I was just like okay I'll just go right back onto it you know but then it takes a little bit of time to increase again so that's a learning experience. You just have to look at your setbacks as learning experiences. You can't be like I'm a failure you know because yeah that's just gonna make everything worse. No it's not because my husband agreed my doctor agreed it sounded person perfectly reasonable. Like why would you want to be on medicine that's not helping you for sure but now I know it is it does help. Yeah it does yeah yeah as much as I in the past was just like I don't need it you know because I didn't want to need it.

L. A. 27:33

Yeah but I don't really know I guess because there's side effects yeah there's side effects and of course there's a a natural like I don't not dependence in an addictive way but like that's like there's not I think there's nothing wrong with dependence on medication because some people just need medication. Yeah that's why it exists. But you know some people like there's that pride issue of dependence then there's the whole like nothing against any of our crunchy friends who like naturalistic stuff. But there's a lot of people that you know believe you know if you think positively enough or take naturalistic stuff enough like there's a lot of thoughts that can just be like oh I don't need this medicine if I just tried harder.

Jessie 28:12

I don't need this medicine if I just eat healthier and I'm all for trying different things you should because you just don't know what's gonna be good for you because we're all individuals. So it's nothing against trying natural routes. Yeah I just I've tried many many things I've tried so many things this is the only thing I mean and that's it's not just medicine.

Bipolar Versus Mood Swings

Jessie 28:35

Like that's just one piece. You know like I I think it's really important to be holistic. So I see a counselor that's very helpful because you can talk out different things and they can ask questions about things you might not even thought of you know or remind you of things that maybe you need to be reminded of and you've done both biblical counseling and like just seeing like a Christian counselor.

L. A. 28:58

Yes. So almost more like biblical counseling format and therapist sort of format. Right. So that's kind of cool.

Jessie 29:05

Yeah I've tried a lot of both of those effective yeah I have yeah I mean so many things are effective like obviously scripture renewing your mind is so important like the verses about you know transforming your mind and not being just like the world you know not obeying the patterns of the world but renewing your mind and and learning what God has to say. That's really important. I used to write down verses like about worry or whatever it was that I felt like I was struggling with and I would put it on little note cards stick it in my back pocket stick it where I do dishes stick it by you know where I get ready in the morning stick it in my car because I had to get that into my mind and change my mind and change my thinking because it really does start in your brain. So it's like maybe that doesn't change chemicals in your brain but it does change the way you're thinking so like like if you I used to think like oh I'm lazy I'm stupid I ugly all these things that I don't normally think but I would I would think that and then so there's so much scripture about how much God loves us and how valuable we are we're a masterpiece you know just knowing that because Satan will try to come in and room like tell you things that you think that you believe about yourself but you probably don't but it's good to have that you know the truth to combat he his lies and you know it's really important. So that's a big piece I think is the scripture and knowing it and remembering it and singing it that really helps you know get it in your head.

L. A. 30:43

Yeah that's good. I I've been thinking recently that I need to sing more worship music. Yeah because it's like it's easy to like go and like listen to sermons or like read the Bible but it's something different I feel like clicks in your brain when you like output like this is the truth.

Jessie 31:02

This is oh yeah it's so helpful. I actually used to put one of my old prescription bottles I used to put on the like a a wrapper around it with names of of worship music. That's so because I was like this is my medicine you know the worship music just like constantly in my mind. Wow and it really is you know like when I changed from secular music to Christian music it really helped just have a lot of positivity. If if nothing else it was positive you know instead of like let's get drunk into clubs and you that's what I used to listen to. It was stuff like that.

L. A. 31:46

Yeah back in the day I'm glad the um positive music helps you okay so I had a a question about about bipolar what would you say like it's different than just mood swings right oh yeah so what's the difference

Suffering, Humility, And Near-Despair

L. A. 32:04

between like you know I don't know maybe one day you're like you know happy then all of a sudden crappy but then like but versus bipolar which is like I don't know what's the difference well and again this everybody has a different like cycle but mine is I'll be fine you know just normal whatever my normal is like yeah ups and downs are regular and then usually it starts with like a nightmare I cannot sleep I have high anxiety yeah high anxiety I'll be worried about all the things I I usually do a lot of things and it's fine and I like it but all of a sudden I'll be worried about all these things I have to do and my husband will be like you were fine yesterday you know and and because I'll be like I gotta do this I gotta do this and I like the anxiety is so high and then he'll tell me like he can just see it in my eyes that I'm just different.

Jessie 33:03

He can just tell and I will not want to leave the house and like I don't have any energy and that usually lasts for like seven to ten days or so and then as I'm like getting to the end of it I'm like you know thankfully I'm gonna get my hypomania which is hypomania like I think I said is a lesser version of mania so like to me it's just very helpful. Like it's I don't see anything wrong.

L. A. 33:35

You don't do anything like reckless.

Jessie 33:36

No no no there is that like and I could talk about that in a second but I don't have that where I am like gonna hurt somebody or like drive off a cliff or you know scary stuff like that. But there is it can get to that degree but I don't have that thankfully but mine is just like like I said I'm gonna clean the house and I feel really good and I have a lot of ideas I get very creative so a lot of my planning comes from those times and I get a lot done you know and I love it because I just and I I really feel like I press into together like I hear from him more at those times because I'm not sure why maybe I'm seeking or just like a more of a clarity. Yeah you know like the fogginess goes away.

L. A. 34:32

So is that almost like a night and day switch when you go from depression to hypomania or is it it's a little bit of a gradual for maybe like a day.

Jessie 34:40

Like so when I'm when I'm depressed I don't just like like I said I sit on the couch but I'm also you know texting people pray for me texting my pastor he'll he'll send me scripture he'll send me like articles to read things like that and my friends will like go for a walk with me or pray or like I'll I'll seek out help. I don't just like try to isolate that's not good to do. Yeah that's very dick dangerous to isolate but I've just learned that that's is what is really helpful for me. Like also for me knowing that people know I have this issue and it's okay to have it for one, which it is it's okay. And two it's okay to contact them that's really helpful like you helped me that one time when I lowered my lithium I was just really in a terrible place and you're like you can call me and and I did and I felt so much better and just like having people be compassionate or understanding and not look at you like what's wrong with you know yeah because it's nothing you can control it's nothing that you did. You didn't do anything wrong like I used to wonder before I knew what was going on I used to be like what's wrong with me? What did I do? You know why did why is God doing this to me? I always always think that now I don't look at it like he's doing this to me. It's just it's a part of life you know living in this world we have challenges and everybody has different challenges but we all have them and they actually are I used to get upset when people would tell me this they're they're good for us they're actually good for us they're for our benefit because suffering really leads us to seeking answers investigating looking into what's wrong like having more of a humility and admitting like yes I have a problem and it's

Wrestling With Healing And Prosperity Claims

Jessie 36:50

okay to have a problem and it actually connects you more with other people because most time people have true connections when they share their burdens instead of just like oh I just bought a new house you know which congrats if you did yeah congrats if you did that's amazing but but most people would be like I'm jealous I want a house but if you share that like I used to like whenever I would hear someone's story when I was feeling depressed and I really didn't know what was going after me I heard someone's story and they just were raw you know and they just like let it all out what was wrong with them and how God helped them it lifted me up so much and I was just like you know I want to do that like I want to be like that person who has a problem and helps people you know so like um I never know his his last name Nick Vojchik I think it is like he doesn't have any arms or legs. He was born that way oh I love watching his videos if I ever feel depressed I watch his videos because I'm like if he is going through life no arms and legs and he can be thankful and praising God and helping other people then I can deal with my situation and help people too yeah right or Johnny Erickson Tata you know her right oh she was in a boating accident or diving accident when she was 17 and she became a quadruplegic so she could only move her neck and she was suicidal and so was Nick. They were both suicidal because they didn't know how they were going to live like that but God gave them the strength they needed and now she's got a a huge worldwide ministry to disabled people. Wow so she encourages me too so I'm like she paints with her teeth.

L. A. 38:46

Wow she does amazing she sings hey we we should collab what's her name johnny Erickson Tada John Johnny Erickson Tida we should collab reach out to me with singing huh with singing or what I mean or she could just you know be in my podcast and Nick guys help me get Nick and Johnny Johnny on this podcast help me out okay that would be amazing or whoever else would you get yeah you get on my podcast anyway proceed I don't know we asked questions so you have some people that encourage you that's beautiful okay so I had another question you made a pretty bold statement earlier that you said something along the lines of basically as a result of of suffering or of chronic illness or whatever that the best things in life come through that. I think that's a bold statement and I'm wondering what you think what you see in your life that you value so deeply that came through or by means I guess Of bipolar than you wouldn't have had otherwise.

Jessie 40:03

That's a good question.

L. A. 40:04

Thanks. Um it was a good statement.

Jessie 40:07

Well, first I'd say I I don't think I'd have a strong connection with God if I didn't have bipolar or some other serious problem. Because before I got depressed, I was really cocky and rebellious and just like I've got all these talents and skills, and I could do whatever I want. I could be this, I could be that. Like, and I didn't have much humility and like a tenderness. When I did get the depression and I didn't know what's going on, I didn't really seek God first. I tried everything I could think of, pretty much besides seeking God. Like, you know, tried what the world says to do, like get a boyfriend, you know, do well in school, get a job, go to college, have a lot of friends, and those things didn't do anything to help me. You know, I mean, not like not everything was harmful, but like my friends couldn't help me, my parents couldn't help me. They tried, but it didn't take anything away, you know.

Paul’s Thorn And Finding Enough Grace

Jessie 41:14

And then even like I was so excited when the doctor told me I was bipolar because I'm like, great, I got an answer. But even that didn't help me because it made it at first, it made everything worse, you know, with the wrong medication. And so then I was getting more and more disappointed with everything I tried. So the doctors didn't help, the medication didn't help. Alcohol, you know, it was was fun going to the bars and partying and clubbing. That was fun, but that sure didn't help. It just added problems. I got a DUI, just felt really guilty for living that way. Felt like every night I'd apologize to God for living that way and be like, if you could help me, I won't do this again, and then just do it all again, you know. So I feel like I really tried everything. I got into like stealing a little bit, you know, just like further and further and further away from God. And that showed me that he's all I had. So, like all that suffering, all that sadness, all that longing, loneliness. I mean, it could lead you to suicide because you feel hopeless. But knowing that he loved me, I remembered that when I was a child. I remembered he loved me. Like I knew that he wasn't just gonna let me go. Like I knew I had to start seeking him, like really seeking, not just like when you're guilty for drinking at night and then praying, like, save me, sorry, you know, but actually like I'm gonna seek you with all my heart and my soul and my mind and my strength. And if I didn't like if I didn't know such depths of despair, then I wouldn't be as grateful for all he's done and all he's forgiven me of, and you know, it just like makes everything that much sweeter because you know how awful suffering feels and just where you where life can take you, and just like you know, the world can really beat you up. Like the people at the clubs, they were not my friends, they didn't have anything but their best interests at heart. Like they just will give me drugs and alcohol and like just let me wander around, like they didn't take care of me, you know. Like it was I could have died so many times, you know. So just like feeling like more and more brokenness, and then like when I finally did come to God, like I was ready to take my life, and I was like holding pills that I did not want to take, but I I just didn't want to feel like that anymore, and I just felt like there was no hope for me. I didn't know what else to do. And it was like in that moment he reminded me, yes, I'm your redeemer, your your savior, forgiver. I you know, I'm your healer. I just I remembered like the image of the the poster as the Sunday school. Oh yeah, it was like very dramatic, and I was like, God, I don't want to guy, I don't want to die, but I don't want to live this way life, so you have to take this life from me. And so it was that moment that it was like it was a very dramatic moment where I knew he he was gonna take care of me and he was like, Hold my hand, don't let go, like I'll walk you through this. And like after that, like not everything just changed dramatically, but I felt the desire to go back to church and to really like read the Bible instead of not, I just never really did read it, yeah. And then it was very exciting to read because I could see myself, like I could see you know, he was trying to talk to me in it, and before that I I just like didn't think I had a need for it, you know. Yeah, so the

Community, Support, And Practical Hope

Jessie 45:22

the suffering really does bring humility, and at first we don't want that, we don't want to be broken because it hurts and it's like embarrassing, and yeah, it's awkward. Like I don't want people to see anything but the polished me, and I'm doing good, and I got a job, and you know, all the things are great, and but like when you when you have the friends that are okay with all of that stuff, like the book and stuff, and you know that God loves you no matter what through it and is there to help you and like knows all about it. It's not like he's forgetting what's going on, like he's aware of everything that's going on and he wants to meet you through it, you know. So that's where it's like that's where the best stuff comes from. Like the relationship with Christ, that was the biggest thing for me. Because I I thought I I don't even know if I was a Christian beforehand. I don't have any idea. I think I was, but I didn't know what that was to like walk with him. So I don't really know. I mean, I I believed as much as I could have believed, I guess, you know. But but the suffering and then him being there for me, that solidified it for me to where I was like, I'm gonna get baptized and I'm gonna live for you. And that's like what helped me find my husband as well. So, like all the time, like growing up, I really wanted a boyfriend. Like early on, in in I don't know, I was like seven. I remember pining over some guy. Yes, it was really pathetic. But I did, I remember I was sad that my brother's friend didn't think I was cute or something like that. It was really sad and yeah, but I just always thought, oh, if I got a boyfriend, then I feel better, I feel happy, I feel connected, you know, and like never really had a good connection with guys. And then when I found Jesus, I I felt like he was like, you know, let's develop our relationship before you look for another relationship, you know, and that really was the best decision because then I felt like I was more grounded in my faith, and and so like that was a lot of suffering though, trying to find a boyfriend and then a husband. And then when I found Jason, I felt like it was worth going, you know, waiting all of all of through all of the years, and so suffering was good at that, you know. Yeah, but not fun going through it. Like suffering is hard. It's suffering, yeah. It stinks, you know, it stinks going through it. Like nobody wants to go back to it once they've gone through it. It's like, okay, I'm good, I'm done. But then you're gonna have more suffering to go through. This may be a different kind. But I don't know, I feel like the more you embrace the suffering and not be like, I don't want suffering, you know, like if you're really tense, it's just so much harder to deal with. Yeah, but if you embrace it and see it as like, this is actually helping me. This is helping me. Mindset, it's hard though, yeah. Like to be like, thank you, God, that I'm depressed. I don't think I've ever done that, you know. Yeah, but I have like when I've gotten through it, been like, Thank you so much for teaching me all you taught me. Because every time there's more things that I learned about myself or about the way I maybe don't treat people well, or you know, things that he wants me to change, but he's not abrasive about it. Yeah, he's just tender and loving about it. So it makes it easier to change, you

Closing Encouragement And Resources

Jessie 49:10

know?

L. A. 49:10

Yeah, yeah. So God has met you in your suffering by teaching you, yeah, right? By and in moments of extreme vulnerability, like almost committing suicide, he showed you imagery of himself and his, like you said, tenderness. So I'm curious, what are some what are some other ways that you feel like he's met you in your suffering? Like we talked about we've talked about your faith, we've talked about your chronic illness. So like how do you feel that your your faith and your chronic illness have intermingled, or like I guess maybe what are some moments that are significant to you that or or what are some truths that God speaks to you when you're suffering the most?

Jessie 50:01

Hmm. I don't know if this is answering the question, but you just asking that is to keep thinking of so when I came to faith, so I was 23 when that happened, and he was helping me make a lot of changes, like step stop going to the bar, stop drinking, stop drugs, those were big things. I just assumed the depression would go away, also that I wouldn't experience that anymore. But it did not go away, it kept coming back, and I was really confused about that because the church I was going to, I met a woman that had she was diagnosed with a lot of different mental health issues, but she also had bipolar, and she said that she went through a deliverance prayer time, I don't know what you call it, deliverance ministry. And she no longer needed her medicine, she was healed, she was transformed. Yeah, and I was like, sign me up, you know. I I signed up right away for that because I was like, if she did it, why wouldn't it happen for me? Unfortunately, it did not do anything for me. And and also because I was trying to test the healing, I threw out all my medicine, and this was right before my wedding. I was very depressed at the wedding. It I still had a good time though, because it was a great wedding. But that was another lesson, and also that's like drove me right back to God. Like, why did you heal her through miraculous healing, but not me? And that was really hard to deal with because then I'd have like so I went to multiple churches, so I'd have one church that I don't know, I'll go to on the every once in a while, and another one I go every week, and one of them had this deliverance ministry also, and they kept telling me that you know, by his stripes you're healed. And you know, I do believe that, but I did not understand what that looked like living that. And so I was like hoping that meant, okay, I will get a miracle, I will be living, you know, no medicine. Uh, because I just really felt like the medicine meant you're sick, you know, even if it's like helping you, you're sick, you know. So anyway, I was very it was very hard with trying to seek this miracle. I really wanted miraculous healing. I did not want to deal with bipolar anymore. I didn't want to take medicine, I didn't want to go to doctors, I didn't want to have to take blood tests, I didn't because they have to measure your your levels of medication. And I certainly didn't want to deal with depression anymore, you know. And it was hard because I'd have people tell me, you know, just you know, just keep praying in faith, praying in faith, you know, like claim name it and claim it type stuff. Like, I I'm not bipolar anymore, my brain is not bipolar, or all these things, and I would try it, I really would, and I would try it with as much faith as I possibly could muster up about it. And it was always just really disappointing because it never would help. Yeah, and so I would have to wrestle with God and and seek, you know, scripture because a lot of churches would say, you know, God healed everybody in the Bible. And I was like, I don't think that's true, you know. I had to like read through it and I'm like, eh, there's a lot of different situations and they were circumstantial, yeah. And so unfortunately, there's a lot of false teaching about you know, the prosperity gospel talks about health, wealth, happiness. I don't really see a lot of that in the Bible for for God's followers. I mean, not to say you can't have money, you I mean, obviously, we're looking for joy, you know. I don't know about happiness all the time, but like joy, we want lasting joy and peace. But, you know, you look at the disciples and they had a lot of suffering. Yeah, everybody. And so I don't know where we can look in the Bible and say we're not supposed to be ever sick, we're not supposed to ever, you know, have money issues.

L. A. 54:35

Yeah, yeah.

Jessie 54:36

So that was another thing I had to learn not to follow that because it sounds great. Yeah, I don't have any problems anymore, but it's just not realistic and it's certainly not biblical. So yeah, I I had to go through that journey of back and forth, like really testing that out.

L. A. 54:54

Yeah. Can I give a few thoughts on that? Sure. Yeah, so I love this topic because I also like have heard a lot of like, oh, if you just like believe enough and things like that. Okay, I have so many, like, I feel like I have at least like four scripture references going through my head. So we'll try. Okay, one. There is, and you could say this is like, oh, like this was a specific circumstance in scripture that God used to display his glory. You could argue that, but and agree to disagree. So there is the part where they come upon, I think it's a blind man or something, a blind beggar, and the disciples ask, they're like, Rabbi, like, who sinned this man or his parents that he's like this? And Jesus was like, It's not because anyone sinned, it's so that the glory of God can be displayed. Right. And then he healed him, right? But but that I think is a significant, like, uh in my opinion, that that kind of message applies to a lot of chronically ill or just ill people in general, sick people, because sometimes you're not sick because you sinned, right? Sometimes you're just sick because we're in a fallen world, or you're sick to display God's glory. Yes. Whether that means you're healed, or whether that means like you, you've been taught, you know, a lot of important spiritual things, or you've been brought closer to God in your sickness. There's one. There were several times when thousands of people, thousands of sick people, dying people are searching for Jesus when he was on earth in the flesh, and he wouldn't go to the he would hide from them. He would literally tell no one where he was going and hide from the sick because he was human, yo. Like he literally, he was human, he had limits, he was praying, wasn't he? Yeah, praying, fasting, who knows what else? He just would go disappear for 40 days, and the disciples sometimes would find him and be like, dude, we and thousands of people who are suffering are looking for you. And bro just did his own thing, like he could have healed everyone, but he didn't. So there's another thing. Paul the Apostle begged God to heal him over and over again. Yeah, and God said, No, my grace is sufficient for you. Whatever that meant, like the thorn in his flesh, we don't know. But we do know that God said, I'm not taking it. Yeah, my grace is sufficient for you. And finally, when Timothy is sick, I believe, Paul writes to him as like, dude, drink some wine. Yeah. Like basically, like, get some help, get something physical to help you feel better, to rest. Yeah. So, anyway, those are, I think, some examples to support what you're saying. Yeah. That like, you know, there are parts of scripture where Jesus does heal. There are parts where he says, if you believe, you will have it. But there's also parts where I think, you know, a God is, I think, a very balanced and holistic God. Yeah. He knows our bodies and our souls and all what we need. And so I just totally like, yeah, agree with you that it's not exactly all prosperity. And for those of us who are sick and try to believe enough and try to like be healed based on our belief, that can actually like, I believe, cause people to commit suicide, Christians to commit to commit suicide because something wrong with you. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, I tried believing enough. There must be something so wrong in my relationship with God and my faith, yeah, that He doesn't want to heal me. Right. You know, and I think that's very, very harmful.

Jessie 58:29

It is. Yeah. And you know, thankfully, since I came to Christ, I didn't like really think about suicide any longer. But I did just feel down, you know, like why? A lot of whys. Why, why, why? And it's okay to ask God why, because he knows we don't understand and he wants us. Like we would come to our parent and say, Well, why can't I do this? Or why, you know, is this happening? We ask questions and then a loving parent will respond. But we we don't always get the answer that we can understand because we're maybe not ready to understand it. Like some things I just don't get, you know, and maybe I will later, or maybe I'll never understand that. And I've come to just say that's okay. Because I just wanna I just want to glorify God with with what I have and what I do understand. And if he wants to teach me more, which I'm sure he's gonna teach me more, but is he gonna teach me every single thing? I don't think so, you know. So I won't know exactly why I deal with this issue. I do know that there's a lot of other people with mental health issues. I I don't meet a lot of people with bipolar, I know there's you know plenty out there. I do meet a lot of people with anxiety and depression, so I can relate to them and just people in general who have had a hard time and feel really down and have. Had suicidal thoughts. I can get that. You know, not everybody's gonna understand somebody like that because if you haven't gone through it, you just don't know why. Yeah, you know, and you might tend to look down on them. But this world is hard, you know, there's a lot of things that can bring you down, and I'm so you know, you you brought up the the verse in I think it's 1 Corinthians or 2nd Corinthians with Paul and the thorn in his flesh. So many times when I was really trying to understand, like I was seeking the miracle and I wasn't getting it, and I was just like, you know, just show me what you want me to see, you know, help me. I don't understand this. And I would always get led to that verse about Paul begging God three times to take the thorn out of his flesh, and and and and then says that a messenger of Satan was that thorn to to keep him humble, you know. And I was always like, oh, okay, because you know, I used to feel like I was really cocky, and you know, and I just like okay, so this thorn is keeping Paul humble in all of this ministry that he's doing, and God's still providing, like he still did so many things, so many good things in ministry, I mean, amazing things, and wrote a lot of the New Testament, so he had a huge impact on the world and still does. And yet he had this thorn in his flesh, and God allowed that to happen. And if if God's grace is enough for Paul, then God's grace is enough for you, God's grace is enough for me and you. And you know, that's important to remember because sometimes we think like, oh yeah, sure, sure, sure, Paul was good. Like God helped Paul, God helped Peter, you know. But they're not like more important to God than we are, you know, he loves all of us equally, so he can help us equally, maybe not in the same way exactly. But so that verse always kind of made me upset at first because I was like, oh, okay, shoot. But then it just made me feel like the more he'd bring it to me, it would just really humble me and be like, okay, so you want to teach me through this and you want me to strengthen through this, and you're not gonna take this away. Like it may, like the symptoms may be relieved, yeah, but it's still something I'll have to keep coming back to him for. And thankfully, he he wants us to keep coming back. Like, you know, like think about the little lepers, the nine, the ten lepers that were healed, and then the nine, they just were like, see ya, they didn't even say thank you, they just left, you know. And I never would want to be like that, where like God makes me better, and I'm just like, awesome, now I'm gonna live the life I wanted to live, you know. Because it won't be as good. Yeah, you know. Yeah, definitely.

L. A. 1:03:13

Okay, well, what's one final thing that you would say to someone listening, Christian or not? Maybe just just what would you say to someone suffering with bipolar disorder as your last mic draw?

Jessie 1:03:29

I know it's really hard, and I know it's frustrating and scary and challenging, but you're not alone. There's plenty of us that have it as well, and you're you know, loved and important and special, and you can overcome dealing with this, you know, may not be something that ever goes away completely, and you may not want me to say that, but but God can help you if you turn to him and if you turn to people that I don't know if you have a church, but if you could find a good church, first turn to God and and ask him, you know, can you bring me some people that can come into my life and help me with this? And there are support group support groups out there that are helpful. And if you know Leah Ann, then you know I could she could tell you about a support group that we do. But there's hope for you and you're loved and God loves you, we love you, even though I don't know you. But I care about you and and hope that you don't get down on yourself, but just know that God has strength for you through this and a good purpose for your life. Yeah, dude. That's good. Oh, well, thank you very much, Jess, for interviewing. This is fun. I hope you enjoyed it. I did.

L. A. 1:04:50

And thanks, dear listener, for listening. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Thank you for being a part of the Christians with Chronic Illnesses community and for tuning in to our podcast. Please follow, rate, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Patreon. You can also follow our socials at CWCI Podcast. If you're interested in sharing your God given story, we'd love for you to email us at cwcipodcast at gmail.com. This podcast cannot substitute for medical help and is purely for encouragement and entertainment. Please see your doctor before trying anything mentioned on this show.