Sarcoidosis and Gratitude With Keith Sciarillo

A baffling itch with no rash led to a dermatologist’s double take: yellow eyes, yellow skin, and a blocked bile duct. That moment set Keith on an unexpected path through scans, biopsies, and a terrifying possibility—bile duct cancer—before a lung biopsy brought clarity: sarcoidosis. What he shares next is more than a medical play-by-play; it’s a grounded, hopeful look at how faith, gratitude, and practical habits can steady a life turned upside down by chronic illness.

We dig into the realities of sarcoidosis across organs—the liver damage from cholestasis, scarring on the heart wall and rhythm risks, eye inflammation that blurred his vision, and the heavy fatigue that reshapes daily limits. Keith walks through his treatment plan with honesty: prednisone’s spike in blood sugar and emergency-level readings, tapering off steroids, adding mycophenolate for organ health, and finding relief with Humira. He pairs medicine with real-world adjustments—protein-forward meals, low-sugar swaps, gentler routines, stress reduction, and small movement—showing how layered care can calm a flare.

Parenting while sick demanded age-appropriate transparency, not perfection. Keith opened his patient portal and told his kids the truth early, which kept fear from growing in silence and taught them how to advocate for their own health. He also started a local autoimmune and chronic illness group, proving that community doesn’t need a crowd to matter; sometimes two people in a room is exactly enough. Through it all, he returns to the same image: throw a stone into water, watch the ripples, and wait for the surface to settle. Pain can tower for a season, but the water can still grow calm.

If you’re navigating a new diagnosis, managing sarcoido

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Christians With Chronic Illnesses' episodes will release every 2nd and 4th Sunday! We hope to interview more of you as we are able. Your followings, ratings, and subscriptions keep this show going, so THANK YOU! Stay tuned for further announcements.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 2:38 Keith’s Background And Hobbies
• 5:53 Sharing Lessons From Life
• 7:53 Early Faith And Childhood Roots
• 14:04 The First Symptoms And Alarming Itch
• 17:29 Cancer Scare And Deep Peace
• 20:54 Sarcoidosis Confirmed And Organ Impact
• 25:29 Treatment Plan And Side Effects
• 29:19 Stress, Triggers, And Daily Limits
• 32:39 Gratitude As A Survival Skill
• 36:19 Diagnosis Journey And Rapid Weight Loss
• 40:49 Parenting With Transparency
• 44:39 Trusting God And Accepting Help
• 48:19 Purpose, Community, And Starting A Group
• 52:39 Final Encouragement And Closing Prayer

Transcript

L. A.: 0:34

I'm your Jesus loving and POTSie . A. host, L. A. Sprague. Welcome to Christians With Chronic Illnesses. Welcome, Uncle Keith and my Uncle Keith Sciarillo. Thanks so much for being on the first ever recorded podcast of Christians with Chronic Illnesses. I thank you so much for being here. Oh yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm so excited, even though, like, that you're recording now, even though you already had a podcast earlier today. That's incredible.

Keith: 1:15

Oh, yeah. No, Trust, I haven't had one in a while, actually.

L. A.: 1:19

So well, it's incredible. You're willing to hammer down two of them in one day. So thank you. Okay, well, why don't you just tell me? And even though I know you pretty well because you're my uncle, why don't you go ahead and let our listeners know a little bit about yourself, your where you're at, how old you are, some of your hobbies. You know, just tell us about yourself.

Keith: 1:45

Yeah, sure. So um, so yeah, as you know, my name's Keith, Leah's uncle, and uh, we could get into that maybe another time or maybe during this interview. But um, long story short, you know, so yeah, I'll be 46 pretty soon. I'm a father of two kids, you know, one of them is already an adult and the other one is heading there fast. Don't want to get too many specific details about them, but uh yeah, and um, you know, I'm doing pretty good. I uh I live in Maryland. You know, I'm originally from like the New York area, New Jersey.

L. A.: 2:19

Yeah, I live in the world.

Keith: 2:21

Yeah, been out here for a long time. Definitely the East Coast my whole life. So yeah. And uh yeah, I mean, I definitely like to be outdoors, um, especially like staying active, active as possible, just being out in nature and stuff like that. I really enjoy it. That's awesome.

L. A.: 2:38

I love that so much. So, uh, what do you do out in nature? Like, what are your hobbies? Do you typically go hiking and such?

Keith: 2:46

Yeah, yeah. So, like, it could be anything from hiking to like definitely in the summertime. I want to do more like stand-up paddleboarding. Oh, fine.

L. A.: 2:55

I love paddleboarding. I'm not good at it at all, but I think it's so fun.

Keith: 2:59

It is, yeah, yeah. I just experienced it actually maybe two years ago, and um last couple summers, I tried to go at least two or three times to that, and maybe some horseback riding again. Um haven't done that in a while. Like, I live in southern Maryland, so we have places out here where you could, you know, for like 50 bucks an hour, you know, ride a horse. Yeah, that's awesome. I might do a little bit of that. Yeah, that's incredible.

L. A.: 3:23

You're a very, very active person. You were the one of the most old like ever since the first day I met you. Again, we have a unique family story, but like you've always been a very active, like hyper individual.

Keith: 3:36

So I just live life and just like you know, looking for adventure. And like yesterday, you know, my daughter just finished college, so she's you know, living close by. And um, I didn't have anything to do in the afternoon, so I looked up things to do in the area, and um, they had the Renaissance Festival out here in Southern Maryland, and I was like, Oh, let me just check that out. So you just went, yeah, I went to that for like two or three hours. Did you like it? Was it cool? It was okay, it was cool. Have you ever been to anything like that?

L. A.: 4:05

No, I haven't, but I've gone to they sound pretty fun.

Keith: 4:08

Yeah, yeah, they're they're fun, they're cool, you know, good crowds, you know. Yeah, like I felt comfortable there, you know.

L. A.: 4:15

That's so fun.

Keith: 4:16

It was fun, yeah.

L. A.: 4:17

Feel like a blast of the past.

Keith: 4:20

Yeah, I'm saying, like, I mean, you know, being in my mid mid-40s, I've never done anything like that in my life, but yeah, it was cool.

L. A.: 4:26

That's awesome. I love that you're exploring new things even in your mid-40s. That's incredible. Well, I wanted to point out something you said when we were talking earlier, because we're talking about, you know, your day-to-day, your habits, and you are a very active, a very passionate person. So you had mentioned to me that a big passion of yours is sharing information that you've obtained through your personal experiences. So, do you want to like expound on that? Like, why is that such a big like passion for you in your day-to-day life?

Keith: 4:59

Sure, yeah. So for me, it's always been a thing where if I experience something and I mean, I'm the type of person that I believe we learn we learn something from each experience that we go through. So I'm like, if I'm learning something, why not why not put that out there into the world about what I learned? You know, especially in this day and age with social media and stuff like that, you can, you know, obviously put a post out there. Yeah, you could have X amount of friends, and maybe half of them won't get anything from it, but some of them might. You know, so I just like I I I like I like I guess I like that part of humanity where we're able to go through things and communicate about it. Yeah and hopefully uh somebody gets something from it. You know, I I don't like to really I mean I guess you could use the word help, right? Maybe it helps somebody, but yeah, you you know it's like sort of like um the old saying about you could teach somebody to fish. You could give somebody fish, you teach them how to fish.

L. A.: 6:05

Yeah.

Keith: 6:05

So you know, you could you could share all you want, but it's it's always gonna be up to the individual to take it to their own life experiences and make it make use of whatever.

L. A.: 6:16

Yeah, you can't make anyone grow, but you can share from your experiences and maybe help someone grow. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's incredible. So part of that I imagine has to do also with your faith. Because when we've talked, you often bring up like God and how he has a purpose. So I was wondering, could you tell me a little bit about like your personal testimony, as much as you're willing and comfortable to share, you know, just maybe a brief summary of how you came to believe in God or like what he means to you?

Keith: 6:50

Yeah, definitely. So, you know, as a kid, my parents divorced when I was probably about four, four and a half, five. And um, and you know, my father, he wasn't around most of my life. I didn't see him. They divorced, and then I didn't see him until I was like 21, you know. But throughout those years, even when I was real little, I remember being like six, seven years old. It's weird, like you know, like the streetlights. I would look at a street light and I would squint my eyes and I would see like the lights shining in all different directions. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know, like seriously, it's like crazy. Even as a little boy, I was like, I was like that one light, the one light that was focusing up. I was like, I was like, yeah, because you know what I'm experiencing here in the world, it can't be it can't be like what there is. I I just knew that over the years. Wow. I was like, there has to be something else more better out there. No, and then you know, going through life and then all the different experiences um from you know people trying to bully me and this and that. You know my personality, so imagine someone trying to bully someone like me, right? Yeah, I'm just like they're not gonna get okay. Okay, cool. Like, you know, I don't I don't pay any bite to it. And um different things like that would happen over the years, but then a lot of those people would like become friends of mine because I remember this one kid was like making some kind of jokes to me about something. I was like, okay, cool. Like he's like, oh man, he's like, he's like, you're awesome, like you know, let me be friends. Oh yeah, like you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, so it's it's kind of like you know, some people have hardened hearts, and uh we don't always have to meet them with that same type of um energy, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we know we know it.

L. A.: 8:46

It's like I I've been thinking about this scripture lately, actually, and it's Jesus talking about like, okay, like if you love people who love you, like so what? Like it's easy to love someone who loves you, but if you love someone who hates you, like that's you know, basically true love. So it just reminds me of what you're saying, where it's like, you know what, like, yeah, it it takes a lot more, I don't know, faith, a lot more strength, and a lot more like the Holy Spirit working in you to like not for for you to not just give life back what it gives you. So it's really incredible that to see that you've done that over and over again, and especially with knowing some of your past history. And before I delve it, I because more recently you've been diagnosed with a chronic illness, and I would love to talk about that. Is there any more that you would want to share about your history with your testimony?

Keith: 9:43

Um, yeah, I mean I guess I'll get just a little bit more into it, you know. But like kind of going back a little bit to what you were saying about about the hatred and then uh you know showing love to people. I always feel like in order for us to feel hate towards somebody, it has to come from somewhere. So it's like hate from within, you know. So like I feel like anybody that has hatred towards others has a dislike for themselves. That's a good thing. I know that's like that's rough to say, right? It's like it's like they gotta you gotta work on yourself, you know, to get rid of that. But you know, even like some of the stuff I've been through over the years, how uh yeah, you know, I'm adopted, you know, I didn't I didn't discover that till I was 33 years old. Yeah, you know, and um, you know, I dealt with that, you know, I dealt with things with my family, and then um you know, connected with a lot of biological family. And you know all too well some of the parts some of the parts of that.

L. A.: 10:46

Yeah.

Keith: 10:47

And um at the end of the day, I always feel I always feel like we gotta be ourselves and let people be themselves, and definitely a lot of meeting in the middle.

L. A.: 10:58

What do you mean by that?

Keith: 11:01

So like a lot of a lot of a lot of friendships, relationships, family dynamics that I've had, I I've always realized like it's not fair to expect somebody to put in a lot of mo most of the effort. Because like I know, and I know there have been times where I put in effort in certain circumstances and I felt a little bit disheartened. But um but I feel like if we're walking towards each other, we're gonna meet in the middle and um you know find common ground.

L. A.: 12:05

Um kind of give the effort that's appropriate for you to give.

Keith: 12:10

And yeah, it's been helpful. It's been help very helpful for me because yeah, yeah, it's different, different things that people need. Yeah.

L. A.: 12:21

So yeah. Well, I think that's really cool that even from like a a young age, like okay, I'm curious what you mean more about like the the traffic light like analogy that you were talking about. Like you said that you'd see like all the lights kind of going different directions. Like, can you expound more on like what what that meant for you, like in your faith? Like you said that helped you just to realize or think about how there's something beyond us. How did the traffic light connect to that thought?

Keith: 12:50

Yeah, you know, I'm just thinking back to it. It was like around the times that I realized I didn't have a father anymore. And and you know, I grew up in a Jewish family actually, but religion wasn't really much talked about in general. But yeah, it is always I mean I would hear about God. So I would I I knew there was a God out there. It's funny, even like when I would like say curse words or something like that, I'd be like, sorry God, sorry God. Right. Oh like when I was little, I was like nine, ten, like just a little kid. But uh yeah, it wasn't even really about religion because I I I obviously I don't really have much connection to an actual religion, but just having faith is something like something beyond here. You know, um yeah, yeah.

L. A.: 13:43

Well, I'm sure that's helped you get through a lot, it seems to have. So it's incredible. Okay, so I'm curious. Okay, I know that recently uh when when did you start having physical issues recently? Because you were you were diagnosed with a chronic illness in the last couple months. So would you be comfortable telling us more about that experience?

Keith: 14:08

Oh yeah, sure. So yeah, so the way it came about recently is um I was having itching all over, and that lasted for a few months actually, until I finally went to a dermatologist. And um, when I walked into the dermatologist's office and the doctor came in, like she looked at me, she said, Do you have liver issues? I said, No, because I was having itching without any marks or anything, right? I was like, I don't think I have liver issues. She's like, you know, your eyes are yellow and your skin is yellow. I was like, God, I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't realize it. And you know, like I and then I right away they sent me for some blood work, and I saw that these levels were elevated, like, especially the bilirubin. Bilirubin is like the stuff that goes through your liver. Because what happened was it turned out that my bile duct was completely blocked. So the bilirubin wasn't filtering correctly, it was getting in my bloodstream. Oh wow, and it's it's like a salt, it's like this bilirubin salt crystals that are like in your and you itch. You itch, so you scratch it and it sort of helps, but then it goes to a different area, and yeah, it was bad, like arms, legs, feet. Um so I I just started getting the blood work done, and I've had started getting the CTs and MRIs, and eventually I got connected with um Georgetown Hospital in DC. And you know, after a little while, we uh we had my first procedure, which was uh ERCP where they go into the bile duct and they put a stent in at the same time doing a biopsy. Because they thought they thought it was cancer at first. That's really good.

L. A.: 15:50

Did you know that? Oh my gosh. So they were telling you they thought it was cancer.

Keith: 15:53

Yeah, they were telling me right away, like we think it's this chalangiocarcinoma, cancer. How was that? Bile duct cancer, you know, and that's like very aggressive.

L. A.: 16:01

Oh my gosh.

Keith: 16:02

So were you scared? Not really, really, because I was like I was like I didn't say these words to myself back then, but I I know now my my life is in God's hands, truly. Always you know, even with the kids, and you know, my girlfriend at the time and my ex-wife, and they were all part of the being supportive, and um they would tell me that they they noticed how much at peace I've always been, and it helps it helped them too. I guess because I was expecting the best possible outcome, no matter what, yeah, whether whether it was that, and then my restoration would be beyond here, obviously. Although I want to live, I don't have any type of ideal idealization of ending my life. Good. I'm glad that's not a good idea. No, I don't. That's all I want to live, I want to live a prosperous life, and um and I knew that stress would make it worse. I know stress makes everything worse. Yeah, people die from stress, you know, like heart attacks and stress and high blood pressure. But so they did biopsy on that, they saw it came back negative. Okay, no cancer. So thank God for that. Thank God, and then they they did a biopsy on my lungs, yeah. So they have to go in through the mouth and do that the biopsy in the lungs. Wow, okay, because I did a CT, they saw some spots there, yeah. And um, that's when I realized that it was you know what they call sarcoidosis. Um and that's when they officially diagnosed me with that. And what's that? It's um it's an autoimmune disease, it's an autoimmune disease, it it causes granulins to form, especially in the lungs, but then it goes different places. Like for me, it was in my bile duct too, which wow is not very common at all, to be honest. Okay, yeah, and because of the blockage in the bile duct, it turns out that I've have some liver damage too now. You know, a bit of cirrhosis there. Then more recently I found out that it's also affected my heart. Oh, it's like scarring on the wall of the heart. Oh my goodness. So it's not quite, but the scarring on the wall of the heart is very it's problematic because I I the the cardiologist explained it all to me. Some people in our community will probably know what I'm talking about too. It's like the rhythm, like they're not worried about me getting like um like a blockage, like you know, a block like for a heart attack, but they're worried about the rhythm of the heart and how we could like skip a couple beats and then it could be like sudden cardiac death, death. Right. Oh my goodness. You know, so so I had a heart monitor recently. Actually, I just sent it back. So I'm thinking my doctor would be calling me in the next week or so to explain some things, what they saw. And then I'll I have another uh PET scan scheduled for two weeks from now to see if there's any more active inflammation in there. In your heart or in your lungs. In my heart specifically. Um Wow.

L. A.: 18:55

So that's the main area they're concerned about right now.

Keith: 18:58

I believe so, yeah. Because like the focus was like on the liver area, yeah. The heart is like that's yeah, it's pretty important. You know, and um, it's crazy because there was one point about a month and a half ago where my eyes were affected. It was like things were blurry. Like, you know, I wear glasses, but yeah, with them were talking about my glasses. Like, if someone was standing like with our with an arm's length of me, yeah, their face would be really blurry. Oh like even to watch TV, I had to sit like right in front of the TV. Wasn't healthy, but like a two-year-old just like up against the screen. Yeah, it was it was crazy. So, like, so the type of specialist I saw for that was a retina doctor. Okay. Um, specifically the retina of the eye. Yeah, and they did see that there was some inflammation there, so the sarcopidosis had got into my eyes.

L. A.: 19:45

Oh my goodness.

Keith: 19:46

Which to me was worrying me for two reasons. Because, of course, I don't want to lose my vision, yeah. But also I thought, because it's so close to my eyes, what if it gets to my brain? Which this disease can. It can get to the brain, it could cause neuro neurologic, neurologic, neurologic, and forget the other term, but wow affects things. And it's funny, I asked my I asked my rheumatologist. My rheumatologist is the main doctor who I've been he's the one that gave me my treatment plan. I'm taking, you know, I was taking this a prednisone for a little while, which many of us know pretendazone, yeah, steroid pills, and then cell pap, which is more of like um a rejection medicine. I think it's helping my liver. But then I'm also taking humera. Umera is it's one of those things you see on TV. Like people with RA take it, um different, maybe lupus, different things. Okay, yeah. So it's it's a what like an immune suppressant, whatever you call it. Yeah. You know, so and that's been truly helping. I've been on that. Oh, good. Like it's definitely slowed things down. I mean, I feel I feel I know that some of this thing, some of this can't be reversed, but it's certainly at bay right now. Oh good. Thankful.

L. A.: 21:03

Yeah. So your your chronic illness uh starts with an S.

Keith: 21:09

Sarcoidosis, yeah.

L. A.: 21:10

Sarcoidos, sarcoidosis. So it right now doesn't have a cure, right?

Keith: 21:16

No, there's no cure. It's just it's it's what they call, you know, manageable, whatever.

L. A.: 21:20

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I get that.

Keith: 21:22

So yeah, like that's it's kind of like the doctor, you know. I was talking to my rheumatologist the other day, actually. He said, I asked him, I said, Will we ever know what's triggering this for me? And he said, No. He said, you know, they do these case studies, right? With people, they'll get a thousand people see the different, you know, different living situations, what they eat, you know, different things to see if there's connections. But he he basically he used these words, and I'm not mad at it. He said it's just bad luck.

L. A.: 21:51

Like, you know, you know, bad luck with like there's no yep, they don't for sure know the cause. Yeah, exactly. That's so frustrating. Oh my god.

Keith: 22:03

Yeah, there's a gen genetic component, maybe there's an environmental component.

L. A.: 22:07

Yeah. And did you have like any sort of symptoms before?

Keith: 22:12

Oh, I'll tell you this. Yeah.

unknown: 22:14

Yeah.

Keith: 22:14

So about seven years ago, I had these bumps on my ankles, my legs, um behind my knees, and I could hardly walk. And what? I I went to a rheumatologist because I I guess someone was telling me to like see a rheumatologist. So a rheumatologist, right? So they diagnosed me with this thing called erythema neridosum, which they said at the time that they didn't know what caused it. And they gave me a steroid pill, steroid cream, and it went away in two weeks. Well, okay. When I was talking to all my doctors recently about sarcodosis, I started telling them about the erythema nerdosum I had seven years ago. I didn't know if it was going to be important or not. They said, Yeah, that's directly affected, that's directly connected to your sarcodosis. Like that was basically a flare-up of this. Wow. You know, and but that was like the only flare-up I had that, and then all these years later, my my my bile duct got blocked, and that was like what Wow.

L. A.: 23:18

So is this something that like is it something that you're born with, or is it something that like because I know like so I have pots, and with pots, it's like you kind of have a genetic disposition, but it's something in life all of a sudden kind of just triggers it, and then it starts and doesn't go away. So, like for sarquoid sarcoidosis, is it like similar where it's like you know, maybe all along it was kind of hiding under the surface? Has it been a maybe a lifelong thing, and maybe you're just now kind of identifying, like, oh seven years ago I had an episode, or oh, maybe in the past I had episodes and just didn't realize, like uh, like how do you know how that works?

Keith: 24:01

Like, yeah, you know what's interesting because that hasn't really been discussed to an extent of like how long they think I might have had this. But I tell you this playing sports as a kid, running track and stuff, I couldn't really run long distances without being very winded. And you know, I I don't have asthma, asthma or anything, nothing like that. So I truly believe that this has been something I may have been dealing with since I was young.

L. A.: 24:26

Wow, and just like maybe they were smaller flare-ups here and there, and then it's just all of a sudden something triggered it or yeah, wow.

Keith: 24:35

I'm thinking, I'm thinking, you know, and you know, throughout life, I lived a basic, basic life, you know, you know, you know, drink very socially. Um never drank too heavily, just socially. Never really got into drugs or anything like that growing up, which thankfully, because you know, my biological parents have a history with that. Right, yeah.

L. A.: 24:56

But um yeah, I'm glad you're able to avoid that.

Keith: 24:59

Of course, you know, maybe like I mean, I'll be transparent. It's it's part of I smoked marijuana maybe four or five times my whole life. Right. Yeah, I'm just saying no.

L. A.: 25:08

Okay, it's not a big part of your life, yeah.

Keith: 25:11

Right, and and I know people in our community rely on that. Right, yeah, but um just for me, it's even recreationally, I never got into certain things. And the reason why I bring that up is because I I didn't have any major reactions, like even when I was drinking or uh like I smoked cigarettes for about five years, a couple packs a day. And I I quit that actually when um when my ex-wife got pregnant the first time. And actually, and also, and I'm not even kidding, my kids will tell you, it was right around the time when Passion of the Christ came out, and and you know, she was she was about two or three months pregnant at the time, and we watched that movie together. And I heard it was like, wow, like with all that Jesus had sacrificed and everything. I was like, I could quit smoking. Oh, that's awesome! I'm not kidding, like that was like a big like thing that like caused and plus she was she was pregnant. I was like, like, I want to try to live as long as possible. So it was such a logical thing to me, but at the time was definitely something the the movie spoke to me. Yeah, I'm not like yeah, and um I did that, and um but I'm sad like I've ate I've ate you know, every you know, I never had any special kind of diets growing up, never no real allergies to anything. Yeah, but since my illness and my since my illness, it it triggered some um like type 2 diabetes because of the uh steroid pills. I I know some of the viewers are gonna relate to that. Yeah, and that happened. Um so I'm taking insulin at the moment, along with everything else, which I I think I'll be getting off that in a few months.

L. A.: 26:54

Once you're your medication that you're taking to help one thing, then cause problems with another thing. Exactly. Oh, it's so difficult. That's tricky to balance.

Keith: 27:07

It was, you know, with with the with the uh with the high blood sugar. Um, do you know anybody that has that? High blood sugar? Yeah, like like diabetes or something like that.

L. A.: 27:17

Uh yeah, I think some people and maybe some people in my family do actually, yeah.

Keith: 27:21

Some older people. I didn't realize it, but I was like, I was drinking tons of water, like tons of miles of water. I was, you know, going to the bathroom like every 20 minutes, and I told my rheumatologist, and then they sent me for some blood work, and I saw that the blood sugar was pretty high. It was like four something at one point. Okay. And then I went to like 800, and I went to the ER for that to get flu. Because you know what's only supposed to be about 110. Oh my goodness. Wow. To give you an idea.

L. A.: 27:51

Oh but um so like almost eight times higher.

Keith: 27:55

Yeah, seriously. And like the thing is like with this medicine stuff, right? Imagine, like, I wasn't, I had no medications in my cabinet before all this. Right. And I was like, okay, I'm taking the pills, I'm I'm trusting, I'm taking insulin, injecting insulin myself into my stomach. It just became natural. Like I'm just like, you know, everything I was going for blood work like at least once a week.

L. A.: 28:15

Yeah.

Keith: 28:16

Before um, you know, the I all the IVs from all the procedures. I had, I guess I was under anesthesia about four or five times in the past. Yeah, the past couple months, right? Yeah, just from like uh different biopsies and then also liver liver biopsy, which actually I was awake for that. Oh my goodness, how was that experience? Yeah, it was liver biopsy. It's interesting. They give you uh they give you the uh actually a dose of like the the medical medical fentanyl and something else, yeah, and then you're wide awake. It was crazy in my case because I was wide awake and they're doing a thing, I just see them with the needle, right? And like I I was like, you can imagine me, right? I said, I said, this isn't that bad. The doctor said, please do not talk. I was like, but I was like, this isn't that bad. And actually, what's funny too the nurse after it was all over, yeah, she was like, she was like, You were really fighting my medicine. Like, you were fighting that stuff. And in my mind, I was actually thinking, like, possibly, but I mean, my biological parents at at one point had you know drug issues, so yeah, maybe I'm a little bit you know, resistant to certain things. Yeah, maybe, you know, like I mean, like, you know, obviously when they do a procedure and they have to put me on anesthesia and knock me out, yeah. I'm out cold, but I would imagine like the nurse is probably there, like with an extra little bit, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like probably because they're probably like, oh, he's starting to wake up. I don't know. I can just only imagine that I need more than some people.

L. A.: 29:43

Yeah, maybe that's kind of that's so crazy. Okay, so that's exciting. You were awake for your liver procedure. That's crazy.

Keith: 29:54

What's crazy about that is the fact that I've been trusting the process the whole time. Like, I never once questioned like what is going on here. I'm just like, this is all new to me. I need to trust the process. As long as I'm getting better, which I have been, uh you know, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take the medicines, I'm gonna go to the hospital, do the visits. You know, more recently, I'm obviously eating better, trying to eat healthier. Of course, there's always these people that have these opinions about these different herbs and teas and all that sort of stuff.

L. A.: 30:30

And they'll be sure to tell you.

Keith: 30:31

Yeah, you know, this one this one lady told me about this African tea that's supposed to bring down information and blood sugar.

L. A.: 30:38

Right.

Keith: 30:38

I tried that a couple days. I mean, you know, it's like I I'm being open to that, you know. But yeah, of course.

L. A.: 30:45

You know, yeah, it can just be hard. I don't know if this is hard for you, but I know sometimes it can be difficult when everybody kind of gives their opinion on like what's gonna help you and your body and your situation, and it's just like it can be overwhelming, you know, having doctors tell you one thing and then you know. People who are anti-medicine telling you another thing, and it can be a big complicated mess sometimes. So it's like nice, like when people, you know, like maybe that you're close with want to help you, or like if they ask permission to, but it can be overwhelming when it's like everybody's telling you what to do with your body and like what you should have, you know, in your body. And it's like, bro, like I'm just trying to get through day to day. Like, I'm just trying to see what works.

Keith: 31:31

Yeah, no, because like you know, like I'm I'm pretty, you know, open on social media. So I posted about my story on social media, my diagnosis, illness. And like a cut, like a couple people would email me, they're like, they would message me, like, oh, you know, I heard there's some stem cell research going on in Europe and you should try it. Wow. I'm like, I'm like, I don't have like $20,000 to even like try to do a month-long trip to Europe. What are you talking about? Oh, sounds like an adventure, but not very doable. If I had the money, I probably would just for the adventure part, I would see the doctor and talk to them, but I wouldn't like go in the knife with them, right? You know, nothing, you know what I'm saying?

L. A.: 32:12

Right. Yes, definitely. There's a lot of that. Yeah, it can definitely be complicated. But I mean, you're a trooper, so I'm sure when people are like recommending these things to you, you're like, Oh, okay, yeah, like I'll give it a try.

Keith: 32:27

No, yeah, well, it's funny, because I'm just like, I'm like, okay, thanks for the info. Right, right. Like, that's kind of like how I have to approach it a lot of times. Yeah.

L. A.: 32:37

Well, what have you found that like does help you? Because you know, you have all these opinions. So I know this is all new to you. When did this start? Like January?

Keith: 32:47

Yeah, I would say like probably like around maybe right after Christmas, actually. Yeah, it's when it really like when I first saw the dermatologist and started getting blood work done and everything.

L. A.: 33:01

Yeah. So since then, you well, okay, well, I have a few questions. First of all, what on a day-to-day basis, what do your flare-ups feel like and what are some of those symptoms like? And then second of all, what do you find actually has helped you?

Keith: 33:19

Yeah. So to be honest, I I I think I think with with this disease, a lot of it's fatigue. Like fatigue is like one of the main things that a lot of us experience. Yeah. Um, you know, while most of us, probably most of us. While it's wrecking havoc, while it's wreaking havoc inside of us, you know, and but I'm saying, like with my liver issue, the itching and everything, I think that was just my body's way of saying there's something very wrong here. Yeah. So, you know, it's almost like I appreciated that. I appreciate those things that do happen like that.

L. A.: 33:55

Yeah.

Keith: 33:55

You know, sometimes I get a little chest pain or something like that, and I'll be like, is it anxiety or is something really happening here? You know, that happens a few times. Sometimes in church, I'll sit in you know, a couple rows in the front, the drum. You know, I hear the beat of the drum.

L. A.: 34:12

Yeah.

Keith: 34:12

I'm like, that that sound of the drum will get to me, and I'll be like, Oh man. Like, seriously, I got lightheaded one time. I was like, Oh, oh my goodness.

L. A.: 34:21

And this didn't used to happen.

Keith: 34:22

No, and you know, I don't know. I don't know if it's because of like especially the heart thing. Like, maybe like I'm like they're saying, like, they're worried about the rhythm of the heart, and maybe the different things. Oh, yeah.

L. A.: 34:35

That's unfortunate that even like the pounding of the brunt of the drum messes with that.

Keith: 34:39

Yeah, it it certainly has a couple times. And I I would like one time I just went outside, went for a walk, went for a walk around the church, and one of my friends was around. Yeah. And uh did that.

L. A.: 34:52

Yeah, episodes in church are a big thing for a lot of people. Yeah. I kind of wish churches had like a back section. You know how they often will have like rooms for like moms who are nursing and stuff, or like I kind of wish they either had like two like sections of back rows that were like for the chronically ill or like for the disabled or something. Cause that'd be so nicely either for you, like, you know, maybe it's further away from the speakers, so your heart isn't affected, or for me, like I can lay down during service and not have to worry about people looking at me. You know what I mean? Like that would be that would be awesome. No, definitely. Guys, listen, we should all, we should all like we should all try to get this in motion. That'd be awesome.

Keith: 35:34

Oh, it would be amazing. It would be so needed. I mean, you would only need a few, a few rows, like a row of you don't think about it, right? How they have you know, like there's always a big necessity for things. And I know people in our community, you know, we'll wheelchair ramps, right? Right, yeah, which are in these days in many places, which they should be.

L. A.: 35:57

Yeah, absolutely.

Keith: 35:59

Um, even though not everybody needs them, but the people that do need them, yeah, it's very important.

L. A.: 36:07

Yeah.

Keith: 36:07

Yeah, you know, yeah. And you know, like imagine, imagine like those apartment buildings that don't have elevators sometimes. It's like, you know, accessibility is right so important.

L. A.: 36:17

Yeah, it really is.

Keith: 36:19

It absolutely is.

L. A.: 36:20

So now that we have talked about, you know, how to solve our church situation, so often it's you like when you're having an episode, it's like your heart feels what does it pound hard like you're having palpitations, or does it actually actually know to be honest?

Keith: 36:35

Like sometimes I'll just I feel like a little bit of like a little bit of like actual little bit of pain right here. And I might get like a little bit lighthead or something, and like like I said, I haven't experienced much anxiety like that. I think the anxiety that I've always had is sort of been like a simmering type, and it shows up as nervous energy. Yeah, you know that, yeah, you know, but but these days it's like maybe I am having some real anxiety or um which is very natural, I hear. Yeah, I hear depression and anxiety is very natural, and um for the you know a lot of chronic illness communities and stuff, and you know so there's definitely been some of that, even with my positive attitude.

L. A.: 37:23

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, you're human, like you're human, and even Jesus wept, right? Like there's that the smallest or the shortest scripture in all of like the Bible is that Jesus wept, and when he was in the garden before he was crucified, like he was the son of God, he knew the purpose of what he was gonna do, and he knew like the reason, and like even from the beginning of creation, he knew that it was gonna happen, and yet in the garden, like he wept, he swept blood, like he agonized. So, if the son of God can do that at his crucifixion, like I think it's okay that you know it's beautiful that you have so much energy, it's beautiful that you have so much like perspective, you know. You're always looking upward, you're always leaning on like the comfort of Christ, and that's beautiful, and that resilience is like so important, and something that we really all of us need as people, but especially as the chronically ill community. But also, or and I guess I should say, you're human, like you said, like having feelings of depression and anxiety are natural. So, anyway, just wanted to validate.

Keith: 38:39

Yeah, no, of course, yeah.

L. A.: 38:43

But you do you do have a quite a resilient like personality, and it's really incredible to witness. I mean, yeah, every yeah, just since I first met you, and then seeing what you go through just over and over. You've always had a consistent, like, you know what? Like, there's a purpose for this. I'm I'm gonna push through. Like, every day is a chance to be like the best day ever. Like, you just oh yeah, yeah, it's it's really beautiful.

Keith: 39:09

Yeah, it's funny. I actually honestly do feel like that. I feel like every day is just a great day.

L. A.: 39:14

Yeah, that's so awesome.

Keith: 39:16

I was even the days I'm not doing anything at all.

L. A.: 39:19

Yeah. Okay, it's a good day. Like, I'm how how do you keep that perspective on days when you're feeling anxious or depressed, or when you know, I saw one of your stories was you were out mowing the yard and then you had to go and take a break. How do you keep that perspective of like, you know what, this this is an awesome day? How do you keep that in the midst of episodes?

Keith: 39:40

Yeah, you know, it's it's funny because sometimes I I try to give myself a bird's eye view of my situation. Um, so like even the day when I'm mowing the lawn, I'm like, I'm like, damn, should I even be doing this? Like and like taking breaks and all that, but I'm like, I have a lawnmower to mow the lawn with. I have grass, it's green. Like, these are self-conscious things. I'm not saying them out loud, yeah, yeah. But just talking through it with you right now, I'm realizing that that's that's what it was. I'm like, wow, I have about a word waiting for me for when I do get tired to drink. Clean water, clean water. Not everybody has that, you know. Yeah, such such blessings.

L. A.: 40:23

So gratitude. It sounds like you really focus on on thanking God for the little things, or in some cases, big things that you have.

Keith: 40:34

Yeah, I totally do, totally do.

L. A.: 40:37

Yeah, so that's a big key for you. That's something that's helped.

Keith: 40:40

Yeah.

L. A.: 40:41

Gratitude.

Keith: 40:42

Okay. Big time, big time gratitude. Um, even even in times of sorrow and trouble, I'm always thinking, like, actually, there have been times when I've I've I've almost thanked God for knocking me down a peg, you know? Like, you know, when I was happily married, had the big house with her. Yeah, oh, it's just so great. Yeah, I'm a happily married guy, I got this nice house. And then, you know, when it all went down, and you know, and I was just like, it's like, damn, all those times when I used to like say about you know, I made it, you know, basically. And no, you know, God told me, no, we're gonna put you in a in in a in a we're gonna have you rent a bedroom in a house with with other people living there. And um, but then you know, God also showed me about kindness of others because when I first got separated, I was living in a house with this family, and I don't know one time I got sick, a little bit sick, like a little bit of a flu like thing, and they would make me soup and stuff. And um it's like, damn. That's so sweet. But you know, yeah, stuff like that. It's happened many times throughout my life.

L. A.: 41:53

So you feel like God has you didn't say this specifically, but by knocking you down a bag, like you feel like he's humbled you, and also in the midst of your struggle and misfortune, he's had people show you kindness and you're grateful for that. And he has secured your kids, and you feel grateful for that. Yeah. What else? Yeah, what else has helped? So you you talked about like focusing on what you have, like being grateful for what you have, even when you're having an episode, you know, humbling yourself, I guess, or allowing God to humble you and accept the kindness of others. So the kindness of others has helped you. What what else has been helpful in in your health journey so far? Medication podcasts. I don't know anything like, yeah, just what's or even on a day-to-day, like what's been stuff that's helped get you through.

Keith: 42:51

Yeah, it's been honestly, you know, like my medication has certainly helped. I've been eating better.

L. A.: 42:58

Yeah. What what's oh let's let's go on that. So so you've been eating better. What's some what's something you would recommend for people with your chronic illness? What's what's that look like eating better for that?

Keith: 43:10

Yeah, so honestly, like I've been eating like a little bit more protein, a little less carbs, okay, uh, more vegetables. Yeah, specifically baked chicken has kind of been like a thing I make at least once a week. You know, nice, yeah. And it's just it suits me well. You know, definitely a lot oh yeah, a lot of things I have now are sugar-free. Really? Yeah, a lot of things. And it's it's amazing. I didn't know about the sugar-free uh you know parts of these grocery stores. Right. Would like would you believe that, you know, Klondike bar, the awesomest ice cream bars in the world.

L. A.: 43:46

Klondike, if you want to sponsor me or Keith, let me know.

Keith: 43:49

Yeah, they make they make like you know, low sugar versions of that. That's awesome. You know, cookies, like, but unfortunately, as we know, the healthier you eat, the more expensive it gets, right? Yeah, it's like crazy, like sugar-free is like I know it's wild. So there's that aspect of things. Um, yeah, vegetable, you know, it's definitely staying stress-free, which honestly, I think I've always done that pretty well.

L. A.: 44:15

Yeah. So you think stress is a really big component as well?

Keith: 44:19

Yeah, actually, stress is um definitely a part of a trigger for a sarcophosis, at least. Really? I don't know if it is for um maybe for some other things too. Oh, absolutely.

L. A.: 44:30

How does that work? Do you know like the the I don't know, biology or anatomy behind why those two connect? No, not really. Okay. I I don't doubt it at all. Stress is a huge sugar for lots of chronic illnesses, you know, which can be complicated because then often, you know, if you get if you're in like a conflict or in a com difficult conversation, and then you start having an an episode, and then you need to go whatever it is, you know, lay down, whatever, then people can think, oh, you know, you're just trying to escape. And it's like, no, no, my body needs help.

Keith: 45:05

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, no, trust me, like like my ex-wife, um, who's a nurse and who's very supportive, especially when we thought it might have been cancer. Yeah, she's told me because I've been working whole time. Yeah, but I mean, very fortunately, I still have my job. They've been understanding when I haven't been able to do as much as I as I want to.

L. A.: 45:25

That's so important. I'm so glad.

Keith: 45:28

It's you know, it's what I'm working from home until August right now. Yeah, but I used to have to go into the city a couple days a week, which is about an hour and a half community today. Yeah, but um yeah, the gratitude I have is so huge. Like, I'm gonna have good health insurance. But even though, as we know, even with good health insurance, it's like things who add up and stuff. Yeah, you know, I get these bills and stuff where like you know, every time you have a procedure, you know, you always need somebody to at least drive you home. So a couple of times I may have well, I took an Uber a couple of times to the hospital, but I I would have somebody able to drive me home. And I, you know, my hospital that I go to is about an hour and 20 minutes away. Wow. You know, so you know, Georgetown. But more recently, I connected with the Cleveland Clinic.

L. A.: 46:17

Yeah, lots of lots of chronically ill people are very familiar with the Cleveland Clinic.

Keith: 46:22

I was gonna say, right, yeah, they have a whole starchoridosis center. Oh no, that's awesome. So, like, I was like, I definitely want to connect with them. You know, so um, I guess I'm waiting for them to call me the next couple days to schedule a visit out there. Oh you know, the first one would be in person, and then you know, as you know, if I need testing, I can do that locally. Right, that's great. Like follow testing, but um happy to do that, and you know, that's part of the adventure of life that I live. You know, it's like you know, I've never been to Cleveland, Ohio, why not? Right, but of course I know it's a benefit, it's it's gonna help me big time too.

L. A.: 46:56

Yeah, yeah. Well, maybe when you're in the Midwest, you can visit some family.

Keith: 47:01

Yeah, oh yeah, so family in Indiana. And then I got I got friends in Cleveland actually.

L. A.: 47:06

Oh, sweet, there you go. So, hey, there's an upside, you know, it's not great that you have a chronic illness, but and it's not always awesome that you have to go to the doctor, but maybe this time, you know, your doctor visit can push you to see those friends. So yeah, I guess there's a positive.

Keith: 47:21

Exactly. Definitely looking always looking up for that side of things.

L. A.: 47:25

Yeah. So on a day-to-day, it's when you have an episode, it often feels like pain in your chest. Any other like because sometimes I know that at one point you said like it can reach different parts of your body. So at one point you had problems seeing, you're nervous about it getting to your brain. Any other and you got itchiness. Does it just like depend where it's going in your body?

Keith: 47:48

Yeah, I believe so. Wow. I believe so. You know, you know, the flare-ups themselves are basically I think a lot of it's happened internally. And it's like when the damage is caused, that's when the different organs or whatever will start reacting to it. Yeah, yeah. So it's like a silent, very silent like people go years without knowing they have it, like as we as we may have figured out, I may have for a very long time, very long time. Yeah, at least seven years. Yeah, at least, yeah. It may have gone dormant before that, you know. So it's just uh especially with the lungs where it kind of originates from.

L. A.: 48:25

Yeah.

Keith: 48:25

It's like anybody that's diagnosed with sarcoidosis, it it definitely started in the lungs. So, you know, all the like shortest of breath I've had when running over the years. And the this cough, I've always had this chronic cough. Yeah for breath. And you know, my ENT doctor told me it was allergies years ago.

L. A.: 48:46

Yeah.

Keith: 48:46

Like dust allergy. Right. Which is such an easy thing to say. Easy thing to believe, too. Yeah, and I mean he believed it, I'm sure too.

L. A.: 48:55

Yeah, I'm sure it wasn't malicious.

Keith: 48:57

Yeah, but like definitely it was something more going on, and um yeah, as you found out, yeah, oh man.

L. A.: 49:06

Wow, yeah, that's crazy.

Keith: 49:09

It's like, yeah, I'm just like you know, my life is in God's hands, yeah, as always.

L. A.: 49:17

So with with this recent diagnosis, and you oh, I just have so many questions. Okay, so so first I guess was the diagnosis process a simple one? Like, was it I know that earlier, you know, that was dismissed as just like dust allergies or like you know, things like that. Recently, when you know you went to your doctors and stuff, was that an easy process or did it take a long time? Because you said that you started really experiencing things uh right after Christmas of 2024. So then and it's now you know 2025 and you have that diagnosis. So how was that process? How did they test you for that?

Keith: 50:05

Yeah, so the main things were um the main things were like um where's where it originated in my liver and boducts, and then uh when they did the um the biopsy in the lungs, that's when they really figured it out because they they they thought it could be tuberculosis at that point because there was spots in my lungs, but I was like, nah, I haven't really been in foreign countries. I I know I didn't have that, right? That was negative. You know, by the way, they do a full workup, you know, especially, I guess maybe because the liver was involved. They tested everything, you know, HIV, everything, all these, you know, STDs, and thankfully, you know, those were all negative, you know. Yeah, and um, they just ruled out a lot of stuff. You know, you know, they thought it was the cancer because the bile duct was blocked, they thought it was a blockager. But yeah, I basically had a definitive diagnosis within about three and a half, three months from when it first started, which I know I'm very fortunate in that aspect because sometimes I know it takes many years.

L. A.: 51:03

Yeah, right, yeah. Yeah, I'm really glad that it was it was quicker for you. But even still, like three months, you know, of I possibly have cancer, a serious cancer. Like, I mean, they're all serious, but you know, one that's often more difficult or complicated, that's like a lot to loom over your head, you know, for a little while.

Keith: 51:24

So yeah, no, like like my family was visiting me, like some of my siblings, you know, like one from New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, like one from Florida, like they'll visited me. Oh, just in case. Yeah, like you know, my biological father, you know, yeah, he visited me. And I know I'm not really saying names, you know, you know a lot of people, yeah. But I'm just but yeah, like people visited me because we thought that things were going down. You know, the kids we had conversations with my kids, and we told them everything since everything since the beginning.

L. A.: 51:57

Oh, and you had lost a lot of weight at one point, right?

Keith: 52:00

I did like I lost a total of probably about 43 pounds.

L. A.: 52:03

And what was why was that?

Keith: 52:05

Because of I guess because of what was going on internally, especially with the bile duct being blocked, and it's like I just didn't really have much of an appetite. Yeah, yeah, I wasn't in much pain, thankfully. Um, I don't know if you know, but uh apparently the the liver, right? Like the nerve endings are not, you know what I'm saying? Like that's why some of these people have liver cancer and they don't know it for a while, you know, because the nerve endings are not, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean you can have pain in the liver area, but it's not like something that like, you know what I'm saying?

L. A.: 52:36

Like yeah, it's not as sensitive or severe or immediate or okay.

Keith: 52:41

Yeah, so um kind of scary. And you know, yeah, like I I learned I learned I certainly learned a little bit about the anatomy from just going through the stuff like yeah, I didn't know like the liver and all that stuff. I didn't know it was all up here. Right, right.

L. A.: 52:56

Like, you know, a lot of people think it was like in the stomach or something because yeah, it just seems like it would be you start to care a lot more when it's in your own body.

Keith: 53:03

You're like, oh like yeah, it's like it's like basically, yeah, very important stuff on the on the on the right side and the left side. Yeah, like you know, with the rib cage and yeah, it's like yeah.

L. A.: 53:14

Well, have you heard of like all the recent studies and stuff on the vagus nerve? A little bit, a little bit of well earlier we kind of talked about like you know how stress can be a trigger for you. And I don't know, I'm no scientist or biologist or anything, but or a doctor, but there's like we have something called a vagus nerve, and it connects like your brain and your heart, and like so much of your body is regulated by the vagus nerve, and so you know it's it makes sense why you know when people feel heartbreak, you know, like emotional, you know, they just went through breakup or something, their heart literally hurts. It's because their vagus nerve is literally connected from their brain to their heart, like like God made it to where our bodies, our spirit, our soul, like our mind, all those things are interconnected. Like we were made as his image, and so we're complex. Like we are, you know, and so anyway. I just you know, I I wonder if that would be something helpful for you to look into with yeah, regulating stress and yeah, there's um there's a vagus nerve exercise that people do.

Keith: 54:20

Yeah, um, I don't know exactly what it is, but I'm I'm I'll probably not even do it. It's has something to do with like I don't know even what no side it's on, but something to do with like you know, tilting your head. It's like a almost like a stretching.

L. A.: 54:32

Huh, okay. Yeah, I I hear there's a lot of them. Yeah, yeah, you can look it up putting whole stuff on your wrist or like rubbing your like ear back here, stuff like that. I've heard of.

Keith: 54:43

Yeah. You know, it's funny because like um I've I've had a few reflexology foot massages over the months too, and that's helped me a little bit. Wow. Because I guess you know, you may have heard like how the foot, you know, the feet connect to a lot of huh, a lot of things too.

L. A.: 54:59

Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, I have a close friend with pots, and she did a lot of like detoxing through her feet and stuff. Yeah, so that's really interesting. That's good to hear that that's helped you too. That's so intriguing. Yeah. Would you be comfortable? And if not, it's okay. Would you be comfortable name-dropping the medications that have helped you personally?

Keith: 55:21

Oh, sure, yeah, yeah. So I, you know, I'm taking numero, which has been amazing, and then uh self cell pap. You know, people will know just from hearing it. Yeah, pretty common, pretty common, like when it comes to like organ, you know, organ health or whatever. And you know, I was on pretending zone for a little while, but that didn't do me too well because that caused my blood sugar to raise up big time. And I heard that's pretty common with that.

L. A.: 55:49

And you is that like a temporary thing or no?

Keith: 55:53

Very temporary, yeah. Matter of fact, in my case, I was very fortunate they they they gave me the dosage that they gave me. They started me at for 40 milligrams, did that for like just like two and a half weeks, and it went down to 20, then to 10, then to five. And I literally have just like one more of those pills, a five milligram pill that I'll take tomorrow, and then that's it for that. Thanks. Uh the prediction, yeah. I'm very thankful. I hear about people being on that for years. Wow. At high doses, and yeah.

L. A.: 56:22

Wow. Well, I'm glad that's a short-term thing for you. That's really cool. I wanted I also wanted to touch up on something you said earlier. You had said how like your life is in God's hands. Yes. So since you know, the I guess maybe not development, but like the recent, very prominent presence of your chronic illnesses, looking forward in your life. Like, I don't know, I don't know if maybe if you're more present, you know, minded person, but looking forward in your life or even now, like, does God's plan look different for you than you had imagined?

Keith: 57:02

Yeah, you know, it's a good question. And I I feel like it I feel like it might. I feel like it might. Because what I thought when I thought was more serious than it is, I was seriously thinking, I'm like, wow, am I even gonna be able to see you know, a grandkid one day, you know? And then, you know, when when um when I got the different diagnosis and they told me it was manageable at least, which is you know is proven to be correct, I I'm definitely able to see more like you know, down the road again.

L. A.: 57:42

Yeah.

Keith: 57:43

Maybe even more so than before, you know. And I do but I do live day to day for sure. And um, and I guess just I guess I just love look forward to the moments that you know I hope I'll see one day. At least, you know, you at least try to just keep instilling the things in my kids to where they'll you know, like, you know, my daughter just graduated college and she's on a good path, getting some good work experience. And my my son may have an opportunity, he's only 15, but he may have an opportunity to start working on cars pretty soon. Aww. With a family friend, you know, just like his cousin. I know, I know it's pretty pretty good, pretty good thing for a teenager to do and make a few bucks. So that that'd be nice. And um, yeah, but that's what it's always been about with with the kids though, ever since they were little, it's like teach you how to walk. Yeah, go ahead. You're gonna you're gonna bump into things, but yeah, get back up.

L. A.: 58:42

How has it been as a parent with a chronic illness? Like, how was for your son and daughter, how was that process of like how did you yeah, how did you like tell them what was happening? How did you comfort them with I'm sure there were a lot of emotions that came with that? What what did that look like for you and your family?

Keith: 59:05

Yeah, a lot of it had to do with just like just being very transparent about everything, but but telling them what I expected. Like, you know, when I thought it was a serious cancer, I was like, I was like, okay, I'm just gonna do what they say, I'm gonna take chemo. You know what I'm saying? I said I may have days where I'm just sitting on the couch, I mean just be drinking water and eating ice. Yeah, but I'm gonna I'm gonna preserve the strength, get my strength back eventually. And that was that was about four four and a half months ago. And if if that would have been the case, I would have probably been in that situation right now. Yeah, and then it wasn't that, and it was something else, so we pivoted a little bit. I'm all about the pivot new direction.

L. A.: 59:50

So you just kept them informed the whole process, you never hid anything from them.

Keith: 59:55

Oh no, no, not at all. Even um, I even showed both of them like my uh on the on the portal. Really? It's called Med Star, Med Star Health is like the the network of hospital. Yeah, I was like, Oh, yeah, this is all the things I got going on.

L. A.: 1:00:08

Oh what did that initial conversation look like? Like, especially with when they thought it was cancer. Like, was there like a sit-down, like, hey guys, like this is serious, or was it just like a casual, like, they already know what's going on, so here's what they knew something major was going on, and we I think we all I think I think other people knew before I did.

Keith: 1:00:28

Like, I would go to work and people be like, Oh, you're losing weight. I'm like, I feel fine. Or um, I took my kids to Florida actually at the end of January. This is in the beginning phases when we're still trying to figure stuff out. Yeah, and um, that's when I was I lost a lot of weight already. I was like yellow. Yeah, I I also have a couple hernia discs, even right now. But they haven't heard of me in a while. But they were going on for the past four or five months, too. We went to Florida and I could hardly walk without having to take a break like every like 20 steps.

L. A.: 1:01:00

Oh my goodness, and then my pants were.

Keith: 1:01:02

Fall down in the airport. I lost so much weight.

L. A.: 1:01:06

Oh my goodness.

Keith: 1:01:07

I heard that my daughter was like upset, crying, you know, a little bit when she spoke to her mom. Then when we got home, yeah. But then when we got home, it was like that's when I got the results of the first MRI, and they said, Oh, there's a blockage there, and we think it's this, and and then um their mom actually spoke to each of them individually. And then I just like you know, just naturally that we spoke about it very casually.

L. A.: 1:01:33

Yeah.

Keith: 1:01:36

And uh yeah, even now.

L. A.: 1:01:39

It's like, oh what advice would you give to parents with chronic illnesses in in that process? Like what advice would you know, like let's say there's someone listening right now who has kids and you know, like, yeah, what's just like one piece of advice that you would give them?

Keith: 1:02:03

Yeah, I mean, definitely no age appropriate, yeah, you know, age appropriate in all in all situations, but yeah, you know, some level of transparency is helpful because it benefits them too, because you know, having one that's 21 now, so now she knows when she goes for her checkups. Yeah, yeah. If she wants to mention that she can, you know, she could you know so yeah, just like definitely being transparent and honest and not you know, you gotta feel how you feel. Like I wouldn't say master feelings.

L. A.: 1:02:37

Yeah.

Keith: 1:02:39

But well, you know, as a parent, I think we do keep our kids it's not sure to keep our kids in mind if we don't we don't want them to worry.

L. A.: 1:02:51

Yeah. So yeah, I'm sure that's really tricky to balance, like, you know, like keeping in mind, like, okay, we don't want them like freaking out, like, oh my gosh, like daddy's gonna leave them. But then also like, well, you don't if something does happen, you don't want it to be out of shock, you know.

Keith: 1:03:06

So yeah, yeah, it's like yeah, it's like a personality thing, it's like an age appropriate thing, a personality thing, you know. You know, like I mean, I'm just saying, like, I've never been a con, I've never been a hypochondriac, you know.

L. A.: 1:03:18

Yeah, you know, to any extent, I would say that's pretty obvious considering people are like, hey, you're losing weight. Hey, your skin is yellow, and you're like, oh, I'm fine. I would say, yeah, that's that's pretty apparent, yeah.

Keith: 1:03:30

Exactly. But you know, I'm saying, like, I mean, but I ever since things started happening, I've been trusting the process, doing everything they say. I never, you know, they they put the blood work in, I get it done the next morning right away. Yeah. But on top of things.

L. A.: 1:03:46

Yeah, good, good. Well, I had a question regarding relying on others. So when we had spoken before, one thing that you had mentioned was like the complicated balance of relying on God, right? Just trusting him, but then also allowing yourself to rely on other people. What do you think like is the balance of those things? Or how do you, you know, like, like you said, you have your emotions, like whether it's with your kids or just people in general. How do you allow yourself to like be vulnerable with others? But then in other situations, how do you allow yourself to have like that rational detachment? You know what? Like right now, I just need to trust God with this. Like, it's no one else needs to worry about this right now. Have you found like what that balance looks like?

Keith: 1:04:46

Yeah, so you know, it's like it's like, okay, so being a naturally, naturally open person, I share a lot, sometimes overshare. And uh, you know, naturally it's gonna bring naturally it's gonna bring attention from whoever. Yeah. And you know, I take I take things in stride or take things with a grain of salt about if I share something, what they respond with, or sometimes a lack of response is the answer right there, too. I've had plenty of situations where I would tell somebody they would be very indifferent, which is okay. Not everybody's gonna care.

L. A.: 1:05:24

Some people just don't know how to react to, you know.

Keith: 1:05:27

Yeah, that too. Um but um but I tell you, when when when when people showed up, they truly showed up. And um you know, I think a lot of people could have this feeling of like, you know, am I really important? But like when things go down, like people will show up for you. Um family, strangers. And it's uh it's all from God. You know, I mean God God made everything, so yeah, you know, I have to trust, yeah. I have to trust it's all further good.

L. A.: 1:06:09

Yeah, so then in a sense, relying on what he's given you is trusting him and relying on him. That's that's a cool perspective. That's really neat. I've never heard that before. That's that's neat.

Keith: 1:06:20

Very serious, very serious. I mean, look, we could we can say, okay, you know, God is gonna fill my belly, right? But you know, God, you know, grew the grapes or the food to to do that. Right, right. We have to actually reach out and yeah, right, yeah. Unless we're not capable of someone has to feed us. Yeah, but you have to like have that process of it's it's both, you know.

L. A.: 1:06:45

Yeah, that's really cool. So then what does it look like maybe when people aren't there for you, or I don't know if you have that ex experience, or maybe in moments that you feel alone. What does relying on God look like for you?

Keith: 1:07:00

Yeah, and that's honestly, I think that's where some of my gratitude comes in. Because, you know, there are times where like I do I do live alone basically, you know. Yeah, and um you know, like sometimes my dishes would pile up or my laundry would would pile up, and I'll and I'll and I you know, a lot of times I would I would I would get myself you know to to take the steps to to do something even a little bit at a time or just cook myself something. And you know, I mean I'm just saying that's sort of times I had to rely on God's strength that He's given me.

L. A.: 1:07:39

Yeah, even just to get yourself a meal, yeah.

Keith: 1:07:43

Yeah, exactly. You know, um I'm very fortunate where I'm able to put my own socks on, you know.

unknown: 1:07:50

Yeah.

Keith: 1:07:50

I mean, I'm saying even like just with the herniated disc stuff and the the pain I had felt during that. Yeah.

L. A.: 1:08:00

Yeah. Another question I have, so that's really beautiful, that like whenever you're feeling that fatigue, you know, a lot of us in the chronic illness community like have those problems, right? Where sometimes it's just like, man, I have laundry to do, or man, I really need to eat something right now, but it's just hard to even, you know, sometimes I have to crawl to the bathroom, right? Like it's hard, you know, sometimes it's really hard to to live with it, to do basic things. I think a danger that we can often fall into as people who do suffer, you know, on a day-to-day, you know, basis, we're sick. Like, that's what chronic illness means. Like long term, you know, there you're you're kind of sick, and there's not really a solution for that. But I think a danger of what we often can fall into, I mean, as humans, but especially for those of us who are chronically ill, is like self-victimization, right? Like, we kind of talked about this in a pre-interview. Like, you you said that you you never really questioned God or said, like, why me in this situation, which is like I think very unique to your situation. Like, I think most of us would probably ask God, like, why me? Like, this doesn't seem fair, or maybe we go to the extreme and just you know, see that everything is bad. I'm always in pain, and this and that. And like, yeah, that can be true that like you're always in pain, right? There are some people constantly in pain, you know. I have a person, I have a friend with a chronic headache, a chronic migraine, like every single second of every day. But like, there's you know, some there's some balance of saying, you know what? Like acknowledging, yeah, like I I have this pain, and it can be pretty hellish sometimes. Yeah, but my my life has more than that. So how how do you do that? How how did you never ask, like, God, why me? And how did you never question God and His plan for you?

Keith: 1:10:04

Well, I use a little bit of an analogy. I know there's some stuff in the Bible that touches on this. I I believe there's something that talks about a stream or something like that. Still stream, something, but basically, I just know that you know, when you throw a pebble into a lake, it's gonna be ripples. But eventually they're gonna settle. You know, they're gonna settle. And that's what I'm always expecting. I'm always expecting things to settle. Even when I'm in pain and so because like pain is rough. Pain affects the mind. I know that too. And I just I'm just always like, I'm just always like, you know, just ready for the for the settle down, you know.

L. A.: 1:11:01

So you just keep your mind on that this won't last forever.

Keith: 1:11:06

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Wow. Oh yeah. There's restoration no matter what. Like I said, whether it's here or not. I think I mentioned that to you previous. Yeah, it's like whether it's here or not. Yeah. I don't know what that looks like beyond here, but um, it's gonna happen. Life is quick. I mean so quick.

L. A.: 1:11:27

Yeah, I think that's really incredible, Uncle Keith. It reminds me of there's the scripture I think in Hebrews about how Christ before, like as he endured the cross, like that he for the joy set before him, he endured the cross. And it reminds me of what you're saying. I think that's such a beautiful metaphor. That even in crucifixion, like even in physical torment, like our Savior Jesus felt this excruciating pain, far worse than you know, many of us, probably any of us, deal with on a day-to-day basis. And for the joy set before him, right? For the restoration, for the redemption of our relationship with him, of the world, for his resurrection, like he for that joy set before him, that's what got him through the crucifixion. And it just reminds me of what you're saying that you know, through these waves of pain, like you said, like those ripples through, like, you know, the wave and the shock, and the shock and the shock, and like the constant like agony, and oh my gosh, like I don't feel good again, I can't get up again, I have to lay down again, whatever. Like, you're keeping in mind this will only be a moment, like whether it's a literal moment, you know, or it's you know, on the other side of eternity, there is restoration, and that's such a biblical perspective to have. That's such a Christ-like perspective to have. Yeah, really astonishing.

Keith: 1:13:07

Yeah, I've seen it, like I've seen it here, even in the world. I'm like, all these things I've ever gone through, the the moments have passed. And you know, Jesus, um correct me if I'm wrong, but yeah, you know, when he came back, he had scars, right? Yeah, there weren't wounds, they weren't wounds, they were scars. Yeah, he was healed. Yep, you know, but the scars are there to remind us of you know what we go through, you know, what Jesus went through. Yeah, because you know he could he could have made it where he didn't have any scars, right? Right. You know, we all have a cross to bear, as they say.

unknown: 1:13:48

Yeah.

Keith: 1:13:49

Yeah, as they say. That too, yeah. Yeah. Pick up the cross. Yeah, absolutely. No, I just like and the thing is imagine this, right? If I was having major, major pain right like right at this very moment, who knows if I've if I would have been able to express this the way I am to you right now. I know you even said pre like before we did the interview, like if it wasn't gonna be a good time, you would understand. Yeah, but it's like I'm glad I'm feeling good enough. Yeah, me too. You've not just been a little bit tired, which it's getting late, but that's irrelevant. But but it's like just knowing that one day everything's really gonna be okay. Yeah, so I just I just have this attitude of I'm always expecting the best possible outcome. And I know it's the best possible outcome because it's the outcome. You know, like all these different variations, like all these different things that could happen to all these different people, the billions of people that have passed through the world. This is my situation. So it's it's really hard to say, and I know a lot of people may not take it right, but whatever happens to me, and I'll say it to me personally, it's it's it's it's already been written, you know. I mean, obviously, God God knows our from from from you know conception to death and beyond. He knows everything we're gonna go through. So I'm like, yeah, I'm trusting the process, you know. Yeah, that's really beautiful. It's easy to say, right? Because like I'll be 46, right? I've been blessed with all these years of life already. You know, I mean, and of course, like you know, some people don't even make it you know, to an hour. You know, I mean, I'm just saying, like so it's easy to have the perspective of like having all these years of life and experience, and but I'll tell you this though, there's quite a balance there, right? Being like middle-aged, right? I'll be 46 very soon. So there are some aspects of like having this disease that could that could quite literally take me out. I I'm like, you know, have I lived enough life already? Like, yeah, you know what I'm saying? No, like I basically raised my kids already almost the second one, is still humorous until he's 18, but but then it's also the same breath of like, yeah, I want to see what else I have looked to look forward to. You know, yeah, maybe, you know, whatever that may be.

L. A.: 1:16:35

So you're both content with the life that you've lived. You know that you've loved people well, and you know that you've known God, and you've raised your kids to the best of your ability. And also, you know, so you're content. You're like, you know what, God has a plan for me, He's written down my days, and also you're like, it seems that you are ambitious for what's to come, you know. You're you you wanna live, you want to keep, you know, to keep trying and keep enduring. And so it sounds like you've a really a beautiful balance of like contentment and growth there, which is like spot on.

Keith: 1:17:14

Yeah, no, seriously. I I seriously, that that's like my whole thing, you know.

L. A.: 1:17:19

Just like yeah, that's absolutely beautiful. Well, another question I had for you was okay, so so you see God has this plan for you, even though it might be different than what you initially thought, you are confident he has this written down, you know, in his book, you all of your days are numbered, you know, everything that you would go through. And one thing that you'd also mentioned to me before was, you know, sharing that comfort that Christ has given you to others. So I'm wondering, with everything that's going on, how do you see God working through your illness? I know it's very new to you, you're getting more like integrated in the community. Have you seen him like using your illness in a positive way yet?

Keith: 1:18:07

Yeah, I think so. You know, something I did locally actually, I started um, you know, the Nextdoor app. What's that? It's like a it's like a um a forum for people that live like in your local neighborhoods and stuff. Okay. Yeah, so I joined that and I just like for a little bit about how like I have a chronic illness and I want to start a local group for it. So I started a group, it's called um Autoimmune and Chronic Illness Group. Dude, no way. That's so awesome you started a group. Yeah, it's about 18 people that joined it online so far. I I had the first in-person meeting about two weeks ago, and only one person showed up. But um that's great. It was interesting. I got to talk to this gentleman. He has MS and uh man, this guy, he's like 55 years old, and he he thinks his life is over. Oh but I think I just tried to remind him about the purpose, and I told him that him being there, sharing his story with me was very helpful. And we weren't really talking about faith too much. Um I did mention it, yeah, but the conversation wasn't all about it. It was mostly about the illnesses itself, and yeah, you know, and uh yeah, I was like, damn, because like he lives with his mom and stuff, and that'd be a humbling thing to do at 55. Yeah, lives with his parents and stuff. He he admitted, he's like, if I didn't have my parents, I I maybe lived in a home or something like that, you know. Yeah, yeah.

L. A.: 1:19:36

I know man, so so you've seen God working through your illness already, and that like you started a group, you know, and you were able to encourage this man who feels like his life is over. I believe so.

Keith: 1:19:51

I believe a little bit of encouragement and you know to let him know that he encouraged me to. Yeah. Because I I kept talking about how I'm newly diagnosed. So, you know, that's that's what it's all about. It's like we all find we fought we all find stuff from within to to bring you know meaning to whatever we're going through, I believe.

L. A.: 1:20:13

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I think that's really incredible, and I have no doubt that God will continue to use you to bless other people. And I have no doubt that many people listening were encouraged by this podcast. So yeah, keep pushing through. Like, I I know that it's hard, you know, especially when the fatigue hits, and you know, maybe the capacity you used to have, you just keep going, going, going. I know you, you man, you like or like the energy. We always like called you like the energy bunny, like you were always like oh yeah, on, you know. But like, like I I just want to encourage you, like you have endlessly had you know this attitude of just positivity and of trusting God and his plan for you, and I and He's he's gonna live through you, like keep keep up with those connections, it's really beautiful. Yeah. Well, do you have any like one concise message, one last thing to say to our chronic chronically ill community? Do you have one piece of advice or one word of encouragement that you would like to give them as a takeaway?

Keith: 1:21:30

You know, it's it's hard to really think of anything specifically. Just that, you know, you know, like day by day living, living day by day has has certainly been like my motto now big time, because I'm just like yeah, literally day by day, you know, moment by moment. Just like you know, every time I go to sleep, I'm like, yeah, I want to wake up. Like I'm just I'm just saying, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that that type of thing. And um yeah, and it's okay. It's okay to feel what you feel.

unknown: 1:22:09

Yeah.

Keith: 1:22:09

Do what you do, you know.

L. A.: 1:22:11

Yeah, absolutely. Um well, thank you so much for letting me interview for this podcast. I hope that you felt encouraged in your faith journey and your health. So thank you very much for meeting with me. It means a lot that you were my first guest to interview, so thank you so much. And if it's okay, I'm gonna go ahead and close us out with the prayer for the chronically ill. Okay. Oh Lord Christ, sifter of dirt and dust, harnesser of breath, as you create and transform and destroy our bodies, carve our hearts to the mold of your hands, save us our doubts, forgive us our trespasses, and comfort us our agonies. Amen. Thank you for being a part of the Christians with Chronic Illnesses community and for tuning into our podcast. Please follow, rate, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Patreon. You can also follow our socials at CWCI Podcast. If you're interested in sharing your God given story, we'd love for you to email us at cwcipodcast at gmail.com. This podcast cannot substitute for medical help and is purely for encouragement and entertainment. Please see your doctor before trying anything mentioned on this show.